Thread: Revelations from Patch 3.56

A couple points to be made:

In regards to the war, while the aggressor is usually the "bad guy," in this case it's a bit more complex. Ilberd has forced our hand by deceiving the Empire into believing Eorzea launched an offense against the Wall, which even without the whole Shinryu business would have provoked retaliation from the Empire. The Imperials have shown time and again that their idea of diplomacy is either "blow it to kingdom come with magitek" or "issue an ultimatum demanding surrender on our terms," so aside from submitting to Imperial rule there's no way to avoid this war. (And even that might not be enough to avoid any and all causalties, knowing the Imperials.) Strategically speaking, the Alliance is launching a preemptive counter-offense because we know the Imperials are going to come in guns blazing. Ilberd may be gone unless his consciousness is still in Shinryu somewhere... but he got his war, even without the dragon.

The primal summoned by Ilberd is... technically sustained by the wishes and prayers of the dead Masks, has no legend or myth to shape it, and no name. However... the wish was for a destructive force akin to Bahamut, giving it a draconic appearance, and the name "Shinryu" comes from what some of the Doman refugees were reminded of. So, everyone is just gonna call it Shinryu for ease's sake instead of "that draconic primal Ilberd summoned." (I'm inclined to believe Shinryu was even more powerful than Bahamut, given Omega could only fight the former to a standstill while it defeated and sealed the latter, but I digress.)

The Warrior of Light and Scions' main goal in Ishgard was to end the Dragonsong War with as few casualties as possible. We never sought to force political or societal reforms on the nation - that just happened as a matter of course, given the social structure of the nation was largely built on the same lie that sustained the war. Yes we fought against those trying to keep the old status quo, but let it not be forgot that we did so defensively after they tried to assassinate the acting head of state, committed large-scale arson, seized control of the seat of government, held numerous hostages, and after he was cornered the ringleader threw one such hostage (a child, at that) from the top of the Vault.

In all cases, when you have the power we do, the power to save people... and you don't, then they die because of you; and if you must kill the guilty to save the innocent, then kill. War is a terrible thing, and would that we could stop Ilberd from sparking it, I would gladly do so. But what's done is done, and now we have to deal with the consequences of that cowardly madman's actions. How strange Hydaelyn is, and how cruel.

Well, a guilt free extermination war? How convinient, and again, lacking the gravitas of actual warfare since we know there is but one outcome for the alliance. By choosing to take the wall, Eorzea has committed to see Shinryu's work and whatever comes by plunging the world into this. You do not fight something like this on the cheap and blameless.

It's going to be hard selling Ilberd as a coward now that we are going to be living the lie. I suppose so long as Shinryu is pointed at the empire we can just watch?

Originally Posted by Kallera

Well, a guilt free extermination war? How convinient, and again, lacking the gravitas of actual warfare since we know there is but one outcome for the alliance. By choosing to take the wall, Eorzea has committed to see Shinryu's work and whatever comes by plunging the world into this. You do not fight something like this on the cheap and blameless.

Who said anything about exterminating the Garleans, or being guilt-free and blameless? Genocide is the Garleans' thing - our goal is, at the moment, just to push them out of Gyr Abania.

There are no real survivors in war, just the guilty and the dead. The problem is that, even without the whole Shinryu business, Ilberd still got his war. He forced the Alliance to choose between either laying down their arms and dying for nothing, or holding fast and dying for something. The Empire isn't keen on negotiations, and even if it were the likelihood of them being open to talking things out would reasonably be close to zero since they believe the Alliance launched an unprovoked offense against their fortification. There can be no peace until Gyr Abania is reclaimed or Eorzea is under Imperial heel, and if we have to deal with the war Ilberd foisted on us we may as well do so on our own terms. Other options do exist, but with the Garlean soldier crapping his pants when Zenos did nothing I don't foresee it happening before the end of 4.0.

Yes, by choosing to continue the fight the blame rests on the Alliance's shoulders - but there is no other real option, save to sit around and wait to get steamrolled by the Empire.

We too bear some small responsibility for this. Had we but apprehended or killed Ilberd back in Halatali, none of this would have happened. (I'm still not sure what Yugiri brought Hozan and Doware along for if they didn't cover the exit.) What's done is done though, and all we can do is deal with the consequences of our actions (or lack thereof).

Also, while this is that sort of game, we don't yet know we're going to come out on top. I'd say it's reasonably certain, but not definite.

Originally Posted by Kallera

It's going to be hard selling Ilberd as a coward now that we are going to be living the lie.

He sparked a(n admittedly long smoldering) war and then committed suicide instead of living with the consequences of his actions. That's about as cowardly as it gets.

And again, we were left with no real option, unless you'd prefer being put under Imperial heel without a fight.

Of course the possibility comes up that "Shinryu" attacks Doma in it's rage and the Domans summon the 'real' Shinryu to counter. Might be an interesting twist, but...eh...probably not. *shrug*

Originally Posted by Alleo

I dont really understand why the Yda/Lyse thing was necessary?

I have a darksteelfoil hat theory that Square Enix really wanted Yda to be a hot-headed, revenge-driven youth hells-bent on reclaiming Ala Mhigo for Stormblood, but given that Yda was hanging in the balance of 20 years of half-fulfilled plot threads going from fighting in 1557 up through being unexpectedly aged a further 5 years by the jump to ARR, having the Lady in Red be Yda, pushing (if not over) 40 years old (with barely any character development or personal growth since the fall of Midgardsormr back in '62) didn't work very well, so they copped right out of it and put her back in the frame of a 20-something off to kick some Imperial ass.

Originally Posted by Kallera

Does this mean Yda is likely Zenos? That just sounds nigh offensive if so.

I know I've been saying that I don't make concrete predictions anymore; that I just deal with probabilities and potential points of view and then roll my eyes at the "I called it! Praise meeee!" and such (unless it's that Gaius lives, because obvious Gaius not Deadsar). I'm putting that aside for a moment.

If Zenos is Yda I will eat my mortarboard.