Thread: Revelations from Patch 3.56

Originally Posted by Theodric

The Warrior of Light - and certain Scions - frequently met with Aymeric and other influential Ishgardians during their time operating out of the city itself. It wasn't wrong to go after the Archbishop and his supporters but to pretend as if it wasn't done - at least in part - to bring forth change is simply false.

The common thread uniting all those the WoL went against? They wanted to keep the bloodshed going.

Again, none of our actions were aimed at changing the government of Ishgard - that was Aymeric's thing. Our goal was to bring peace between Dragon and Man, which did not require changing the government from a Theocracy to a Republic (that is still divided by class/wealth, despite the rosy picture some paint of it at first), and our actions were consistent with that goal.

We were a catalyst that led to the government changing, yes, but to suggest we came to enforce that change (which is your claim) is disingenuous.

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

If everyone was praying for Rhalgar

My take is that the "prayers" manifested less as specific call to a specific idea of a deity and more toward a being of destructive power to save them/crush their enemies.

Perhaps being combined with Ilberd's suicide in a ritualistic fashion, his own desires (something greater than Bahamut to destroy his enemies) - combined with holding the eyes - was enough to influence the form the creature took.

That said being is now named Shinryu is more a happy accident (in-universe at least) due to Doman legend.

Originally Posted by Berethos

My take is that the "prayers" manifested less as specific call to a specific idea of a deity and more toward a being of destructive power to save them/crush their enemies.

Perhaps being combined with Ilberd's suicide in a ritualistic fashion, his own desires (something greater than Bahamut to destroy his enemies) - combined with holding the eyes - was enough to influence the form the creature took.

That said being is now named Shinryu is more a happy accident (in-universe at least) due to Doman legend.

I thought of another theory that could have sparked the identity of the primal. Ilberd was the griffin for... we don't actually know how long, and he was sending out a clear message to the people of Ala Mhigo. Perhaps using this message he planted the idea of a draconic calamity, and using what info we have from the MSQ, the people of Ala Mhigo were praying for Rhalgar, but in their thoughts they were imagining the fires of a draconian calamity (not just bahamut, but also midgardsormr tearing the garleans apart), what this manifested into was a Rhalgar/Draconian calamity that formed Shinryu. This is why it seems that Shinryu uses lightning attacks and seems very mishapen and incomplete as a Dragon.

I don't buy the whole draconic aether from the eye, but I could definately buy influenced prayer from a very clever preacher.

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I thought of another theory that could have sparked the identity of the primal.

According to comments elsewhere, this may be another localization quirk causing confusion - the other languages apparently don't reference Rhalgr at all.

I think the idea behind the whole thing is that it's a manifestation of anger and vengeance, a nameless being stronger than even Bahamut...but the specific call out of Rhalgr in the English client muddies that interpretation.

Personally, I think that because the actual summoning didn't begin in earnest (afaik) until the moment Ilberd cast himself to his death that his desire had the strongest pull on what would be summoned, and he certainly didn't seem the type to be calling out to any version of Rhalgr, and that the deaths of the others served as a more general catalyst of aether - that some called out to a specific belief was less important than there being a surplus of aether generated by violent deaths.

You dont need to use trickery or misleading information in order to get players excited for seeing something In Its first appearance in action. The whole shinryu all of a sudden reveal would be no lessen if the followers were all chanting his name instead of rhalgar. I think more players are disappointed with the switch and bait then the expectations but yet to be revealed element.

With heavensward we knew we are going to fight dragons and we did but imagine instead of fighting dragons we get a battle with no dragons and instead it was just a focus on battling the empire. That would be wrong.

It is possible Shinryu was summoned because some people sacrificed were originated from Doma ?
I ask because I am not sure if Ilberd has recruited doman refugees or not.

I still find it a stretch that the primal is sustained by the a doman myth. If that was the case Shinryu would be easy to deal with. We just would need to stop the Doman's thinking its Shinryu. After all, literally its only connection is a resemblance and honestly I could easily have seen them mistaking Midgardsormr or even Bahamut for Shinryu.

I am also not sure if I would expect Shinryu to be stronger, at least not yet. Bahamut had a long time acting as a conduit to get juiced up and damage wise both are calamity scale. Omega did apparently take down Bahamut but Bahamut had been weakened by a war of attrition at that point, starving him of sources of Aether, while using the voidsent possessed corpses of his own people against him.

Originally Posted by Belhi

I am also not sure if I would expect Shinryu to be stronger, at least not yet.

Nidhogg's Eyes are kind of the unknown here - tough to say how much they augmented what was already a fairly powerful summoning ritual (since we know that sacrificing a life as part of the ritual leads to more powerful primals).

Originally Posted by Chewy2nd

I was under the impression that it was a random unnamed Primal that was summoned, that the Domans dubbed 'Shinryu' after legends from their home country.

There's a good reason you're under that impression - that's exactly what happened. This Primal, whatever the desires/beliefs held by those involved in creating it, came first...and then it got the name Shinryu.

I was under the impression that it was a random unnamed Primal that was summoned, that the Domans dubbed 'Shinryu' after legends from their home country.