Votekick reloaded

[Vaer]

No, there should be a way to remove problematic players without abandoning the entire instance.

[LalaRu]

No, there should be a way to remove problematic players without abandoning the entire instance.

This is the base of the problem. People go in a random matched party but they want it matched the way they like it.

Create a pug without the pug's drawbacks, has it any sense?

Then the so-called "problematic" people shows up at the start, right? Hardly I can imagine you will carry a problematic player up to the final boss, just to kick him out at that time.

If pug goes wrong, make another. Kicking people until you get all the ones you like I think it is wrong.

[Vaer]

This is the base of the problem. People go in a random matched party but they want it matched the way they like it.

Create a pug without the pug's drawbacks, has it any sense?

Then the so-called "problematic" people shows up at the start, right? Hardly I can imagine you will carry a problematic player up to the final boss, just to kick him out at that time.

If pug goes wrong, make another. Kicking people until you get all the ones you like I think it is wrong.

What if you get a troll that doesn't do anything (Look at Diadem that has no kick, people leech rewards)? Do we just leave and get a 30 minute penalty? Do we dump the party and spend another 20 minutes in queue. Sorry nope.

I'm not talking about poor performing players that are trying, I'm talking about actual trolls, leechers and general people you probably don't want to play with.

[Vidu]

This is the base of the problem. People go in a random matched party but they want it matched the way they like it.

Then the so-called "problematic" people shows up at the start, right? Hardly I can imagine you will carry a problematic player up to the final boss, just to kick him out at that time.

If pug goes wrong, make another. Kicking people until you get all the ones you like I think it is wrong.

1) Vote abort is only available after 15 minutes - so you want to carry the problematic player to the last boss and then abort the mission alltogether so that the three people who were trying to get through dont get a reward either?

2) The purpose of DF is to make sure that we all can get through our dungeons - yes, its true that you have to deal with not having full control over the people you get paired with, but that doesnt mean we should put up with everything and everyone. Why shouldnt we remove an obvious troll, a person who harrasses us, someone who makes finishing the dungeon impossible or maybe even a bot?

3) Looking at the current system we can kick some after 5 minute, but need to wait 15 minutes to abort the mission - and I can see why: Isnt it prefered to remove the person who troubles the run so the other three have a chance to finish it?

4) Abuse of the vote kick system can and should be reported

5) Premade parties dont have the kick option in the first place (funny enough that you dont know that...) and cant recruite new members either while in the duty (unless they changed that since a friend of mine had to rush his friend to the hospital and we were waiting for the autokick because he left his character in the dungeon - just to discover that we cant search for a replacement). So if you're in a PF, you'll have to leave the dungeon anyways to find someone new.

If you want to play how you want - why not look for 3 friends who will tolerate that and go into a dungeon with them?

TLDR.: No, dont remove the kick function, its very useful when used correctly

I'm also curious now why OP is so salty about it and why they've possibly be kicked so many times they want to take our tool to remove trolls, bots and people who endanger our runs away...

[LalaRu]

5) Premade parties dont have the kick option in the first place (funny enough that you dont know that...)..
I'm also curious now why OP is so salty about it ...

Just shared my opinion on votekick as a feature and whoever disagree can do it. I feel laughning at OP (not you, talking generic) for having an opinion is not the right way to disagree, 'tho.

Will try to reason around your points:

1) is more about the waiting time for a disband. Here I can agree, 15 minutes are too much long and it happened to me too, it was excessive. And yes, only disband and after 15 minutes means have unwelcome guests all round until the end. Here you have a point and my suggestion can have sense only when that time reduced, to say, to a fair 5 minutes?

2) I disagree a bit here, you are pugging and you cannot decide which kind of players you want be paired with. Trolls and alike can happen, and always can be reported. We all hope reports gets some effects but cannot do more. A troll is a troll and I guess there is no magical checkbox "no trolls please" when queuing df.

3) goes as 1), we need 5 minutes and no more.

4) I agree.

5) I just said it makes sense. It needs be in PF because have much more sense, because have sense kick out people that are not who they needed to be, and going more far, it must be possible even when in combat. I hope not being too much funny expressing this opinion.

If I looks salty on it it is not intended. Just want share my opinion on this topic.

[Vidu]

Just shared my opinion on votekick as a feature and whoever disagree can do it. I feel laughning at OP (not you, talking generic) for having an opinion is not the right way to disagree, 'tho.

The problem with vote disband after 5 minutes is that it can be easly abused - if you dont get the roulette you wanted, you wait 5 minutes and try again. That was a huge issue when everyone was farming Brayflox HM for tomes - they might even have introduced it at that point. So thats not gonna happen.

And again: why should three people loose their (waiting) time and their place in queue because one person decided to not contribute to the run? Yes, sure, you can report someone whos trolling - but why not also have the easy way to remove that person immidiatly and go on with playing the game you're paying for after all?

I really dont understand why you want this feature removed, sorry. Again: Yes, pugging means you can get paired with anyone and if someone is kicked because of the job they're playing thats silly, but it happens so rarely that we dont need to remove this feature. Kicking someone because they're an ass, afk, DC'd or endager the run in any way is valid enough and happens often enough to keep this feature.

We ASKED for this to happen - I havent used it often myself but each time it helped the run to go smoothly and get finished. I dont see the problem.

And I'm still wondering why you thought about this "problem" at all and want a very helpful feature removed... I'm sorry but I cant help but imagine there is a story behind this. Why would someone who hasnt been kicked think "Oh, this feature that doesnt affect me in any negative way really has to go!"

[Miste]

it does not need have votekick but just duty abort option

So if I go into a piece of DF content and only use my auto attack as a DPS and use none of my abilities...because I keep going AFK and not helping my group...
Or..if I go into a piece of DF content as a healer and not use any healing spells and keep letting them all die...

My group should be unable to kick me and they all have to quit the instance because of me and all have to wait in the queue line again which can be up to 30 minutes to even an hour depending on the content?

This is absolutely ridiculous.

[Kallistra]

OP, removing the vote kick command would not fix anything, it would in fact make things worse for a lot of people.

Let's pretend you have a little DPS who is newish to the game, they're leveling their first character, don't really have any friends. They get to AV for the very first time and queue solo. After a painfully long wait, they get in. Healer says, "Ugh, not this run." And proceeds to sit down and not move. If it was the tank sitting there--with a confident healer, even just one good DPS, and small pulls--you could push your way through the dungeon, sure. But you won't be clearing any bosses without a healer. Why should this party have to vote abandon just because one person refuses to do anything and there is no way to remove them? How is that fair to people who are new and haven't made many friends yet, people who have returned after a long time away to find none of their friends play anymore? Those are people who use the DF the most because going with a 4/4 premade isn't always an option for everyone all the time. Not to mention not all roulettes can be done in parties (mentor and frontlines for example).

And what about other problem dungeons like the Aery or the Vault? Both of these dungeons have final bosses that make any issues within the party really obvious. Why should 3/4 people have to suffer through another queue, another 20-40min dungeon, just to get stuck at the final boss because one member cannot preform and there is no way to remove them other than to disband? I remember leveling my DRK and getting an Aery run with a DRG who only used Impulsive Drive. Nothing else. The other DPS in our party died to Sable because they weren't being freed and by the time the adds came out, they had double weakness. The healer is MP spent so they're not DPSing, the DRG is hitting like a limp noodle, the other DPS is trying his best with double weakness and I'm trying my best to DPS without taking too much damage so the healer can conserve some MP. But we could not meet the DPS check and the DRG wouldn't listen to any pointers. So they were removed, and we cleared with a new DPS the next try. I was actually in a Vault run today where we had to remove the healer at the final boss because they just could not keep up with the damage. It wasn't because the tank or my co-DPS weren't dodging, but this healer just wasn't able to handle AoE healing + healing the tank + moving out of AoEs. I'm not going to sit there and watch everyone's rotation so I can vote dismiss at the earliest signs of trouble, in both these instances the rest of us were able to preform well enough for the issues with our fourth member to go unnoticed until we needed to rely on their performance.

What about people who are intentionally trolling? Say you queue up for a 24man and you have like 3 members in your party on classes and they are just there to voke and kite the boss and kill as many people with cleaves and AoEs as possible. With a majority vote they can be removed, all of them if they are that much of a problem that 3 members are willing to dismiss. Why make 21 people suffer because of 3 people who can easily be removed? And leechers? (I personally haven't seen any in PvE content that I can remember, but I remember seeing them in PvP once in a while) Why should I let someone get away with auto running into a wall in 72man and collect their tomes and/or victory when they didn't help?

Yes, some people abuse the vote dismiss, but that's why it has a cooldown. It does NOT need removing, but it might need some adjusting. For example, make dismisses in a 4/4 party require 3/4 to approve the kick instead of 2/4 or make it so you can only dismiss one person everyday. Removing a function is not a solution, it is just creating another web of problems.

[LalaRu]

...Yes, some people abuse the vote dismiss, but that's why it has a cooldown. It does NOT need removing, but it might need some adjusting. For example, make dismisses in a 4/4 party require 3/4 to approve the kick instead of 2/4 or make it so you can only dismiss one person everyday. Removing a function is not a solution, it is just creating another web of problems.

Your post made me think over OP and yes, you suggestion have so much sense that I feel it as a better candidate for dealing with the feature than plain removal.

I'm not sitting on my high horse and if I see better reasoning I will acknowledge it. Kudos to you.

[Pintsized]

No, there should be a way to remove problematic players without abandoning the entire instance.

It's called Party Finder where you make your own group and then can dictate terms.