Healers that don't want to DPS are like DPSes who refuse to move out of AoEs.

[Celef]

I don't know if you non healer guys know but there has been a serious bug since 3.2 (or maybe 3.1 cant' really remember) affecting Cleric stance.
When we are in DPS mode and want to switch back by removing the Stance, sometimes it just won't be removed even if we click (and usually you don't realise that immediatly cause focused on something else)

So be carefull, everytime you ask healer to DPS with it, you put yourself at risk that he might not switch back in time to handle a huge damages phase.
Bug report has been done but no news still.

[BigRed5392]

They are being carried.

A healer who heals isn't being carried. really why do you feel the need to be so cut throat and ride on this game. I agree in savage raids, but anything outside of savage raids doesn't need this poor attitude. you people and your arbitrary standards.

[Hirmu]

Healers heal

This is literally the only argument you or anyone else of the heal-only crowd keeps repeating. It's called a healer, yes we all see that and yes, healing is the first responsiblitiy. As soon as the discussion goes into spesifics or actual in-game mechanics and situations, you just fall back to repeating that it's called a healer and needs to heal. Answer me this: why are you even arguing about this? What is it you're trying to accomplish?

Because you must agree that in general (for anyone, be it tank or dps or healer) idling for 70 % of the time is just plain crappy playing, right? You would be annoyed to see dps just auto-attacking for 70 % of the fight, right? And we've all established that yes, it's the healer's responsibility to keep the party alive. This is what we all agree on (yet the heal-only people keep throwing the straw man argument that someone thinks otherwise). There's also quite a lot of proof that healing requirements in any fight, including savage are low or situational and there are long periods of time where healers don't have to actively heal anyone.

So what is it you're trying to argue? What's the basis of your argument?

From what I'm reading, your only argument is that healer doesn't have to dps because it's called a healer and that the first responsibility is to keep everyone alive, but you blatantly ignore the similar arguments about tank play for example. If it was called a support role instead of a healer role, would you argue the same thing still? If so, how would you support the argument that "support job is there only to heal, anything else is just extra"? Or are you going to just ignore this question like everyone else of the heal-only people? Because you never answer any of these questions, ever.

[Mikaeru_Umbranox]

What they need is to give healers some more buffs like a haste spell or spells like barfira or something like that to decrease dmg taken from different type attacks. Could also add in other spells like ones to increase various stats for dps and tanks to do more dmg with.

that would be really nice.
perhaps if someone doesnt do dmg 'cos RP reasons ("i am a man of peace, i dont killing"),
so giving healers some nice short-time buffs to enchance team members' damage/spell/skill haste / Crit / whatever-dps-boosting-effects instead of doing direct damage would be great idea.
and it would be much less boring to reapply various buffs instead of spamming Malefic/gravity

[Hirmu]

A healer who heals isn't being carried.

You say this, but why do you think your opinion on this is the correct one? When would you say someone is carried?

By your logic, a tank who only spams flash to keep hate and uses damage mitigation is pulling their weight.
Similarly a MCH just autoattacking and putting down turret for dps is pulling their weight as long as the dungeon doesn't time out.
A healer who does just enough to keep everyone from dying is pulling their weight.

Can you please answer why these situations aren't all identical? Is it because a healer is called a healer? What about tank then? It's not called a DPS-tank. They're there only to tank, nothing else, right? Why can't I say "I'm here to dps and as long as I do enough to not time-out, I'm pulling my weight. You people and your arbitrary standards!"

[Taika]

you people and your arbitrary standards.

Says the person who said healers should be keeping all party members at 90% HP at all times or they're lazy.

[BigRed5392]

snip/URL].

Basically he said the same thing everyone else has been saying: keep your party members alive, then you can DPS.

he also said multiple times that no content, including savage raids, is tuned to healers dpsing.

For those using strawman and saying "but ignoring kit"- not all jobs use 100% of their kit. I don't see healers cure spamming cure 1 and 2 for cure procs. I don't see sch spamming adlo for hq procs. you don't see mnks in fists of the earth once they unlock fist of fire and i don't see them using pulling for haymaker. I rarely/never see drks use their dot on mobs, i rarely if ever see wars use their dots. I don't see ninjas using all of their ninjustu. I rarely see AST stance dance inbetween fights, or use their barrier skill in fights outside of primal/raid boss ultimate attacks.

I'm not against healer dps, more so when done well as in tank is @70-90% hp and dps's. I'm gonna be honest I've never seen a run go fast with healers dpsing.

What I don't like is all this negativity and hate toward players for arbitrary and selfish reasons.

[BigRed5392]

Says the person who said healers should be keeping all party members at 90% HP at all times or they're lazy.

twisting my words. i said 70% on the tank while dpsing.


People logic on healing in this game is mind blowing.

I am only commenting because I hate rude and selfish behavior, and tired of seeing my g/f stressed out because she runs into people like those on this thread. Whom, might I add do nothing but stress people out, and play as bad as the made up players they complain about. While saying "but this is easy, try savage raiding"

So a healer who keeps their party @ 70-90% is lazy? Sorry but what definition of healer you basing this off of?

[BigRed5392]

You say this, but why do you think your opinion on this is the correct one? When would you say someone is carried?

By your logic, a tank who only spams flash to keep hate and uses damage mitigation is pulling their weight.
Similarly a MCH just autoattacking and putting down turret for dps is pulling their weight as long as the dungeon doesn't time out.
A healer who does just enough to keep everyone from dying is pulling their weight.

Can you please answer why these situations aren't all identical? Is it because a healer is called a healer? What about tank then? It's not called a DPS-tank. They're there only to tank, nothing else, right? Why can't I say "I'm here to dps and as long as I do enough to not time-out, I'm pulling my weight. You people and your arbitrary standards!"

it is a strawman

you guys like using them. content does take into account of tank dps, just not healers.

like i keep saying idm healer dps. Just you people say it in the rudest way possible which isn't good. All because of the "my time" argument and nothing more. When it was started not once, but multiple times healers dps is not taken into account when developing content.

forcing a player to follow your made up rules, is just as bad as the made up people you complain about. I never had a slow run because of healer not dpsing. I never had a fast run because of healer dpsing.

I did have fast or slow runs because of dps. blame them not healers who dps isn't taken into account.


And just to clarify. I do heal/dps when I play sch. I keep my g/f top off while doing decent damage. So what is the excuse of healers who only cure after fights or, only keep tanks @ 50%

People logic on healing in this game is mind blowing.

I am only commenting because I hare rude and selfish behavior, and tired of seeing my g/f stressed out because she runs into people like those on this thread. Whom, might I add do nothing but stress people out, and play as bad as the made up they complain about. While saying "but this is easy, try savage raiding"

[Taika]

he also said multiple times that no content, including savage raids, is tuned to healers dpsing.

Which is simply not true in the reality. Even the best players in the whole world would not have been able to beat Alexander Savage raids when they've been released without healer DPS. And that's not because their DDs and tanks suck, it's because that's how the content was actually tuned.

For those using strawman and saying "but ignoring kit"- not all jobs use 100% of their kit.

The argument is, all jobs should use the useful abilities in their kit. And this same argument applies to healers and all other jobs - the standards should be the same for everyone. The difference is, you don't see anyone arguing that it's ok for a BRD to ignore their songs, for example. Healers are literally the only jobs for which some people argue it's ok for them to ignore a major part of their useful toolkit. Also, that's not a strawman argument in any way...

twisting my words. i said 70% on the tank while dpsing.

Are you sure?

If you are not keeping your tank at least 90% hp. that is bad

So a healer who keeps their party @ 70-90% is lazy? Sorry but what definition of healer you basing this off of?

I don't think anyone here has said a healer who's keeping their party at 70-90% is lazy, so you're again using a strawman (it is very ineffective play, though). People have called afk healers lazy, though, which I think is self-explanatory. Your comments are based on a deep lack of understanding of the game's battle mechanics and healer skills.

In a huge amount of content, you can keep everyone alive with just keeping a regen up on tank and then healing maybe once in a couple of minutes. In this type of content, this is exactly what you should do as a healer, to cover the healing requirements of that content and to keep everyone safe. Then, after that, if you keep healing, you're overhealing, causing unnecessary enmity and wasting your resources (time and MP) on things that are not needed for anything. If you want to play your job well, then you should instead use those resources on something useful, which in the case of how this game works is DPS.