Healers that don't want to DPS are like DPSes who refuse to move out of AoEs.

[RaijinSupreme]

Enjoy being kicked from every group ever.

Never happens to me.

[Kuroneko_Jutah]

I'm more annoyed by new healers trying to dps but without Cleric Stance. Do they know they do, like, no damage and only waste mana? Even worse if they do it in PvP.

But you can't Cleric Stance in PvP. Even low INT dots still tick and do damage. Speaking from personal experience, I started from there and progressed on to stance dancing when I was comfortable squeezing out DoTs in between heals.

You're more than welcome to yell at them for making an effort though. It's not as though we have hoards of newer players who feel discouraged from playing this game because people like you have a chip on your shoulder.

Oh wait. We do.

[Elim]

I'd love to just heal, but there's never enough damage to keep me busy.

Even in A12s as the main healer(my main is not correct on this forum anymore) I DPS'd a lot... and I cleared it without a huge gear advantage--awhile back.

The very simple solution to this debate is not removing cleric stance, or shaming lazy healers, its upping the amount of healing needed for all content.. and probably upping everyone's healthpool by a significant amount too. Heals are too OP \~·~

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Seriously? ANOTHER thread about this? You didn't even have the decency to put it in the healer forum. You stuck it in the GENERAL forum. People are tired of this. Just STOP

People will never stop. They adore threads like this for some reason.

[SenorPatty]

Players getting in a tizzy over playstyles.

I'm more interested in healing behaviour rather than whether or not healer is dpsing. Idm if you don't. Most of the time, we clear mobs at a pretty smooth rate enough so its not all that noticeable. My problem is healer being obnoxious enough to jump around, emoting and even outright verbal trolling. That's like a tank just spamming flash and macroing emotes.

I'll initiate a kick. Not for not going above your role because that's a playstyle thing and I'm above that but just for being a colossal dick.

[BokoToloko]

Opinion is, healers shouldn't be forced to DPS. What's expected from them is that they keep the party alive, not that they DPS. A lot of people here mix the optimisation of a role with the requirements. And it's not comparable a DPS who stands in the fire with a healer that doesn't DPS. Dead DPS can't add damage which is what they should do, healers that doesn't DPS can keep their party alive perfectly. If anything, you could compare a healer with a NIN who doesn't Goad or a Monk who doesn't cast Mantra. Does it ease the burden of your companions? Yes. But your party won't wipe from that.

There's also the matter of laziness. First of all, except for really obvious cases (but, like, really, really, obvious) you can't just tell if it's laziness or just that the healers aren't comfortable with CS. And, in DF, you'll have scarcely a moment to heal if, let's say, you get a party full of bozos who move at Scathach shadow ground or get caught in the Shadowspins. It's really full of circumstances and the time a healer won't DPS out of laziness are fewer than some of you make it look. Also, not everyone has grinded the instances to the point of being able to know when each time happens and not everyone is in a static group where they know they play with people that are familiar with mechanics and timers.

On the 50% tanks matter, I'd plainly say that leaving them this way is just unnecessarily incresing the risk of the tank dying due to a tankbuster out of nowhere. Topple them up isn't that hard and doesn't have to take a huge toll on the DPS. It's better to be safe than to be sorry.

At last, I'd say that, everyone should try to do the best they can as long as they feel comfortable. It's no point to toggle CS on and off if you can't anticipate when will the heals be or not be needed. But if you think you can do it without a problem and you don't find yourself under too much pressure, go for it. It's not something required from healers but from players as part of a team. Everyone should try to fulfill their role and also try to help the others in it when they find themselves able to do it. Fulfilling the job's role is fine, but reinforcing the other roles' performance while at it is superb. That's what teamwork is about.

[KDSilver]

On the 50% tanks matter, I'd plainly say that leaving them this way is just unnecessarily incresing the risk of the tank dying due to a tankbuster out of nowhere. Topple them up isn't that hard and doesn't have to take a huge toll on the DPS. It's better to be safe than to be sorry.

You never leave a tank at 50% during a tank buster...
If you're leaving him on low life before a big hit, you don't know how to heal and dps.

Don't mix everything please.
We're not talking about leaving the tank at low hp for pure fantasy.

It involves many things :

- A regen/the fairy on him or it is soon the time to pop the big instant heal
- The context, if it's a trial/raid => What will he eat next ? Big tank buster ? Then he'll have to be full life. Auto attacks only ?
- Big pull on dungeons, several little hit
- Watch the tank's active cooldown at this moment.

I really would appreciate that people stop thinking that we're doing things for pure fantasy when we're talking about our experiences while we know what we do.Taking weird emergency example on where the healer just suck to make believe that dpsing as healer is bad.

[BokoToloko]

snip

The thing doesn't go around just a tank buster. It goes around ANY factor. You can't expect the tank to just dodge everything and mitigate everthing just fine unless you know him. And most of them just don't. They all make a mistake at some point.
If you know the tank won't make a mess and you group knows the mechanics fine, it's alright. You will be able to anticipate to a larger extent. But that doesn't sell in DF unless zergfest is the thing.

I never leave the tank unnatended if they don't have most of their HP with them. I can buy a 80-90% just to avoid overhealing. But at 50% is taking too many risks and there're many AoE's that will swipe through that 50% if the tank places his foot in the wrong place. Toggling Cleric off, Lustrate/Dignity/Tetra and then toggling Cleric on barely takes a GCD. And just 1 GCD (2 if refreshing Regen) should suffice if you don't want to use the big heal.

So why keeping them at 50% when you can easily keep them a higher percentage without much effort/costs? There's barely a benefit that's worth the risk. You can DPS perfectly with the tank being at a higher percentage than 50%.

[LineageRazor]

A healer is free to choose not to DPS. All content in the game is designed to be achievable utilizing only the damage from DPS and tanks.

However...

For a group struggling to achieve their first win in a Raid or Extreme Trial, DPS checks and enrage timers are an obstacle which healers can ease by adding damage when they can. It's not necessary - but players in this game prefer to see results sooner, rather than later. Additionally, once an instance becomes farmable for a group, they will want to achieve many victories in as short a space of time as possible - and a DPSing healer can speed up a win considerably. A Healer is under no obligation to DPS, but a group is under no obligation to retain a Healer whom they see as underperforming. No matter how you slice it, if there's something a player is capable of doing that will improve a run and they are choosing not to do that thing, that is the very definition of underperforming.

The same applies to easier content. A dungeon run where the healer contributes DPS will be significantly faster than one where they don't - far more so than in a Raid, since the healing requirements tend to be a lot less restrictive in easy content of that kind. In many cases, a healer needs to spend less than a third of their time actually doing any healing. If they are doing absolutely nothing in that remaining two thirds when they could be contributing to damage, it's awfully tough to justify.

But, to be perfectly honest, what puzzles me most about this whole brouhaha is why any healer would WANT to stick to just healing. I could see it being tempting in Raid and Extreme content, where the stakes are much higher and the cooldown on Cleric's Stance is terrifying, but healing dungeons has got to be the most boring thing in the world. I think I'd go stark raving mad if I had to heal a dungeon without filling in the endless amount of free time with nukes.

It's nice to dream about content where pure healing is required just to survive, content where there's no room for Cleric's Stance - but we don't have content like that, and possibly never will. Healers are far too good at what they do, and they wind up with lots of spare time. If you're comfortable with the content and have something productive that you could be doing with that spare time, and choose not to - why?

[Nixxe]

We get it. People who don't play exactly how you want annoy you and you can't stand it. Welcome to life, where people don't always do exactly what you want them to do. Get over it. Everyone is going to be OK.