Dps As Healer

[Zojha]

Well, looks like Yoshi P said it.

Yes, the debate is over. You heard it from the same guy who said he expects DPS to carry tanks that only do autoattacks and 1-2-3 aggro combo by pulling 85-90% of their theoretical calculated DPS potential:

Yoshida: When we make battle content, first we determine a minimum assumed item level required to clear. Then, we determine the total amount of party damage required to clear, taking a minimal amount of damage from tanks and healers into account during this calculation.

What do you mean by minimal?

Yoshida: Basically it's the damage from tank auto-attacks and the basic skill rotation used in order to maintain hate. We add this to the party damage needed. However, we often use zero in the calculation for damage required from healers. In other words, we only take into account the amount of damage necessary to perform as a tank or a healer and we don't take them into account as actively participating in attacking. For the clear assumption on DPS, we calculate the 100% value for the item level and we reduce that by 10 to 15 percent for the amount required to clear.

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/12...tions-requests

Healers and tanks are leecher roles intended to ignore a good half of their skills by design, so please stop arguing now. Yoshi said so. If you're playing DPS, you may find that a teeny weeny bit unfair, but that's clearly just jealousy.

Also, don't lick this post or you may suffer from sarcasm poisoning.

[Misutoraru]

I hope in 4.0 dungeon, we will have some heal intense dungeon while CS will be disabled

[Lexia]

How about the just get rid of Cleric Stance, have jobs like whm based on your their mind stat. Then I could see the argument of being lazy for not dpsing when healing not needed cause you could do what ever is needed without having to worry about what stance you are in.

[Glenfiddich]

WHM and Astro are no longer healing classes. They Are DPS Classes with the best healing abilities in the game.
I've seen many WHM out-dpsing Pure DPS classes.

[Ama_Hamada]

WHM and Astro are no longer healing classes. They Are DPS Classes with the best healing abilities in the game.
I've seen many WHM out-dpsing Pure DPS classes.

That is because people do not know how to play.

Except this causes healers to be one way or the other; there's no middle ground because you're terrible if you focus on healing and "good" if you DPS. If your entire argument for Cleric Stance hinges on the idea of doing above X DPS (because even in situations where you can't switch into Cleric Stance, you can still at least put an Aero/AeroII/AeroIII on the mob), then yes, you're focusing on e-peen and not something that is native to healer gameplay.

If you want a healer that deals damage as part of their gameplay, there are venues for that sort of thing. Just be prepared for the problems that come with that, like that class becoming mandatory if the meta were to allow it (becuz t3h d33pz), or for that healer to be weaker in certain ways to compensate (Disc Priests in WoW come to mind).

We can also talk about DPS skills as a mechanic advantage for healers. Use a DPS skill => get something that makes your heals better. That would help everyone adjust to using damage skills as a healer because it props up your primary function. I've mentioned it several times but no one seems to want to talk about that.

what do you mean there is no middle ground? Am I supposed to be board and cast one spell every 5 minutes??

[Lexia]

That is because people do not know how to play.

Also large amount people don't care cause they didn't sign up for healer class to dps. Which is mainly the devs fault cause healers can dps as backup but they made healing too easy so there really nothing else to do but dps which were also made quite powerful. So in my view the class like whm is broken cause as said before lot of people sign up with healer class like whm to heal and if they wanted to be a dps mage they most likely would of became a blm.

[AlphaSonic]

Sometimes I wonder. People that not DPS at all as a healer, What do you do in dungeons? Do you do anything useful?

[Ama_Hamada]

Sometimes I wonder. People that not DPS at all as a healer, What do you do in dungeons? Do you do anything useful?

Also large amount people don't care cause they didn't sign up for healer class to dps. Which is mainly the devs fault cause healers can dps as backup but they made healing too easy so there really nothing else to do but dps which were also made quite powerful. So in my viewthe class like whm is broken cause as said before lot of people sign up with healer class like whm to heal and if they wanted to be a dps mage they most likely would of became a blm.

I was referencing to DPS that lets a healer out dps them, do not know how to play, and it is quite common to run into the duty finer.

Also keep in mind some people get nothing but bad players in their DFs, so when they come across say a war that actually knows what they are doing, it is shocking and many may not know how to adjust. From what I seen, humans tend to flock to habit and if they developed a habit just to heal because of bad parties, then what happens when they are in a good one?

This is why you see me, well some anyway, posting about my friend being stressed over healing. She finds skill levels all over the place using the DF. This one time before a maint for example, this tank overpulled in comparison to their skill, would not migrate damage, leaving her unable to dps at all because she could do nothing but chain heal. The next party she could be with a war that needs no healing at all and here comes the holy spam.

The point is this, she likes to DPS at points to speed up runs and wants runs to be as efficient as they can be. If something is acting as a barrier to this she speaks up and that is how she runs into toxicity a lot. Even if it is something simple like "Can you do more aoe damage please I am healing too much" (Because of longer kills stuff stays up too long after stun lock and uses too much mp on healing she can't dps on future pulls) Due to people for the most part thinking of themselves, she was mocked and linked a 275 relic by the tank basically telling her to shut up. So she explained a MCH needs to AoE to get things done and was mocked further referencing it how it only has 120 potency and never should be used. When she said her main was MCH they told her she should not play WHM then. What these people do not understand and would be hard to explain is that MCH is more her "current main" but WHM is basically natural to her. It is so natural to her to be a healer and an observer as she calls it, she can spot weak DPS without a meter. "it is more like a feel of how battles flow and should flow" If weak DPS causes her to heal stress she says something. (usually it is a combination of bad tanking and dps, see next)

It wasn't till recently she seen "god tier" performance out of everyone and in parties like that, can go though full large pulls without casting a single heal. swiftcast holy at the end of the megapull > aero III > holy > holy > stuff dead, no healing needed. She was even get away with this in a library farming having a weak DPS (210-230 ish gear depending on slot with 210 wep) Because the second DPS and war tank was so godly, she was able DPS/heal while also outdpsing the second DPS, just because the god like tank knew how to migrate and deal damage, who out damaged them both individually, and quite significantly) So for total DPS, even with tossing out heals and no deaths it went: first dps > significant> tank > significant> healer friend> small gap > the second dps.

With this latest experience, she concluded most people on the forum simply run into people that know what to do and because of that, get confused why people have to just heal only in normal DFs. Even she had to do that at times because the tank and dps being so bad, she ends up needing to have a spam heal rotation and causes her stress because at times its like "please let this finish in time so we do not wipe" FOR EVERY CAST! and having the LB meter spam the healing chirp sounds.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

.

In general none of the healers should have quite a bit less healing power than the others because healing is their main role. Obviously there are some differences between the healers still, but the main point was that the gap of healing potency between AST and WHM/SCH was just a bit too far. The healers can vary in healing power slightly from each other but they have to stay relatively close because healing is the main role.

Yet this is what's causing the biggest imbalance with healers ATM. The fact that AST can heal and mitigate as strong as a SCH and WHM while still offering massive buffs to the raid.

You can't just nonchalantly make all heaing between the healers equal before considering what else they bring. Why would you bring a WHM that can only heal when you can bring an AST that heals as reliably as a WHM while offering buffs?

[Miste]

You can't just nonchalantly make all heaing between the healers equal before considering what else they bring. Why would you bring a WHM that can only heal when you can bring an AST that heals as reliably as a WHM while offering buffs?

Yes...you can and should. If a healer cannot do their main role as well as the others then there is a problem. Healing potency was the reason AST's were not accepted into groups at release. WHM's have never been not accepted into groups due to healing potency since their healing potency is fine.

The healers can vary in healing power slightly from each other but they have to stay relatively close because healing is the main role.

If you look at my post, and read it, you'll notice I never compared the utility of the healers. I only compared the healing potency and highlighted problems that AST had compared to WHM/SCH at release.

I was talking about healing potency NOT utility so you don't need to jump to defend WHM against me. Wasn't even what I was talking about and you have it quite wrong when it comes to healing potency. Healer jobs are healers they need to all be efficient at healing and close in healing power because it is their main role. Their extra utility is another topic and not what I was talking about at all.