[DEV Question] Can we split it?

[JunseiKei]

Will there ever be a split of scholar from arcanist?

With 4.0, role skills will be introduced. While I don't see 4.0 showing a true split of scholar from arcanist, I do wonder if it would be a possible precursor to seeing the job completely separated from the base class.

I have a few ideas to how it could be done, especially if certain skills were removed completely from one (like physic on summoner/arcanist) because of a role skill (like a basic cure/benefic/physic on healer role). I can also think of a couple of reasons of why there would still be issues (arcanist, summoner and scholar using the 3 main DoTs across all, as such an example).

Or is it simply a case of no real intention of putting the resources in to 'fix' what isn't broken, just inconvenient? So please, stop asking~ ♥

I know this topic has been something going on for a while, almost as long as egi-glamours/ more egis, but I'm still curious as to the general consensus is of the players as well as the SE team. Before the answer was whatever changes are made to one, it affects the other two. Will this be the same stance after role skills?

[Enkidoh]

I agree, ACN and it's two Jobs is such an orphan in the game that needs addressing (SCH being the 'odd' Job fit for the class, as ACN was a DPS like SMN is, and even the development team seem to regard SMN as ACN's 'true' Job - if you select ACN at character creation and switch the character's displayed gear to 'Job' it will only show SMN AF not SCH). Personally I would like to see it given to a new base class (a possible candidate could be 'Mediator' from FF Tactics)... but given the way the game has been developing with the classless 'Extra Jobs' I think that ship has long since sailed.

The whole Armoury System as a whole needs to be examined closely by the development team and a decision made on exactly what they want to do with it, as it's long since lost consistency with all this tinkering and experimentation with new systems that don't end up working as well as they should (again personally I'd prefer it if they reverted back to the 'one base class and one Job upgrade on that class', give SCH to a new base class and add base classes to DRK, AST and MCH, as well as RDM and SAM when they're introduced... but alas I don't think that will ever happen).

[JunseiKei]

Personally I would like to see it given to a new base class

It doesn't need a base class, just a stand-alone job unlocked at level 30. IE: DRK, AST, MCH and the upcoming RDM and SAM.

If they were to make a new base class for it, I'd personally rather they gave this new scholar its own skills not shared with arcanist and summoner to solidify its split and ease for balancing purposes.

Right now, one of the biggest glaring flaws with scholar that I see and feel is the difference between having accuracy or not, even if you were a scholar that only healed (a cardinal sin, if you ask most players). Simply because of Energy Drain. It's a great MP replenishment tool for scholar and..... not really used by summoner sans their opener (one of them), but requires accuracy to consistently hit it.

[Vexander]

I believe SE has stated that, at some point, they'd like to get rid of classes entirely and just have jobs. Maybe we'll see that in 5.0. Or later. Or never. Either way it'd resolve the matter, though I'd be curious to see how the 1-30 leveling experience would change, and especially how the lore would change to adapt. Imagine starting White Mage at level 1.

[Sylve]

I believe SE has stated that, at some point, they'd like to get rid of classes entirely and just have jobs. Maybe we'll see that in 5.0. Or later. Or never. Either way it'd resolve the matter, though I'd be curious to see how the 1-30 leveling experience would change, and especially how the lore would change to adapt. Imagine starting White Mage at level 1.

Quite likely the lore wouldn't change. As far as the story is concerned, You'd be a Conjurer doing things for the Conjurer Guild until you 'learned' enough to be called a White Mage. There is no mechanical difference between CNJ and WHM, So nothing would need to truly change outside of perhaps modifying some quest dialogues here and there.
Same for other Class/Jobs with their intro quests. A Gladiator for example, could be a 'Paladin in training' and have the NPCs reference such in dialogue.

[AmalonStar]

It is a bit of a tricky thing I think.

Sch does share a lot of spells and abilities with smn and vice versa. This is probably why sch can dps like it can is from the arcanist base spells and abilities, while on the other hand smn can't really use much for healer abilities it can help raise fallen party members when things go bad. I think the combination of the 2 compliment each other nicely, only down side to them being split from the same base class is you have to choose which stat to invest your bonus points into. If they could set it up where you can put points into both from a job stand point rather than as a class then you wouldn't need to pick and choose, they had adjusted the mind and intelligence stats based on job.

[Seniade]

The biggest problem I see is that SCH uses too much of the ACN toolkit to separate it without either creating identical skills or completely changing the way SCH plays. This was an issue back in 2.0 when they admitted that there were problems with SMN but had a hard time adjusting it without also affecting SCH in the process.

Minus the pet's abilities, there are only 10 skills that separate SCH from ACN (the 10 job skills), and half of those are fairly situational.

For the bonus stats split, unless you are OCD min/maxing, either invest it all in the job you mainly play (Int for SMN, Mind for SCH), or split it between the 2. At current gear, I have over 1500 Mind, 17-18 points is not going to make or break you.

[Ama_Hamada]

the acn/sch needs to get changed. The stat sharing is annoying.
having "leeches" (esuna) at level 40 when it is supposed to be a level 15 spell because of this is annoying.

[JunseiKei]

This thread is not just about main stat speccing. It's also about the balancing issue between arcanist, summoner and scholar and how that can feed into issues.

having "leeches" (esuna) at level 40 when it is supposed to be a level 15 spell

This touches on one of the issues. Doing Brayflox Longstop on a scholar can be quite... interesting. You lack any of the tools to remove poisons unless you use Selene. If you use Selene, you lack AoE healing (succor is level 35, you are synced to 34). Here you are faced with simply power healing through the poison and hope your fairy does a good job healing as well as you being able to maintain your MP well (depending on how well your team are able to dodge).

In guildhests, you often face a similar issue and sometimes even in Palace of the Dead. If you're running a scholar, you cannot remove debuffs unless you are in level 40+ instances. I can't recall how many times I've personally been told off by people for not removing debuffs (the worst often being Long Live the Queen). It's not that I am lazy, I simply can't.

The instances are built with the healer role having certain abilities in their kit. However, being scholar in the odd position they are in, completely lack these staple healer kits until later levels. The shared main stat issue is annoying that only summoner and scholar share, but that's all it currently is: a unique inconvenience.