[SUGGESTION] Modify the function of "Need" option for loot

[Vidu]

Edit: Just because I don't think your 800 seals are worth more than my 20 ilevel upgrade for an alt, doesn't mean I think the opposite is the case. I believe they are roughly equal in importance, and therefore should have an equal priority in determining who gets it.

I consider the greeded gear a nice bonus - I still have to roll against three (or seven) other people to get it. So securing some gear beforehand by picking the job for it, is just careful planning.
You get the need option for the job you're on too - if thats not the job you want gear for, you're obviously playing the wrong job.

[Mholito]

I consider the greeded gear a nice bonus - I still have to roll against three (or seven) other people to get it. So securing some gear beforehand by picking the job for it, is just careful planning.
You get the need option for the job you're on too - if thats not the job you want gear for, you're obviously playing the wrong job.

How do you plan for what randomly chose gear is gonna drop from whatever instance you do? If everyone rolled need on everything they could, you'd have a 1 in 7 chance (for amrour. 1 in 13 for weapons) to get a guaranteed piece of loot each time something dropped. If everyone greeded on everything that dropped, you'd have a 1 in 4 chance (or 1 in 8 if it's an 8-man party) to get any piece of gear that dropped. People are severely overestimating how much such a change is gonna affect their seal aquisition.

[Settiesama]

How do you plan for what randomly chose gear is gonna drop from whatever instance you do? If everyone rolled need on everything they could, you'd have a 1 in 7 chance (for amrour. 1 in 13 for weapons) to get a guaranteed piece of loot each time something dropped. If everyone greeded on everything that dropped, you'd have a 1 in 4 chance (or 1 in 8 if it's an 8-man party) to get any piece of gear that dropped. People are severely overestimating how much such a change is gonna affect their seal aquisition.

Are you seriously just gonna repeat what this thread has already been through? Have you even read more than the first page? If nothing drops for our job, cool, no biggie, can run again. If something drops for our job, and we still can't get anything because our lots are low, this is pushing it. We have more a chance of getting stuff by being able to need what may drop, than by having to greed everything.

Edit: Oh, and don't forget tanks and healers, why would they need to be tanking and healing when they have the same chance of their gear on other jobs? Everyone role dps!

[Mholito]

Are you seriously just gonna repeat what this thread has already been through? Have you even read more than the first page? If nothing drops for our job, cool, no biggie, can run again. If something drops for our job, and we still can't get anything because our lots are low, this is pushing it. We have more a chance of getting stuff by being able to need what may drop, than by having to greed everything.

Edit: Oh, and don't forget tanks and healers, why would they need to be tanking and healing when they have the same chance of their gear on other jobs? Everyone role dps!

Are there any counterpoints other than "I don't like change", "Don't take away my seals" and "Don't be so entitled"?
Remember: It's not just you who is no longer rolling need on anything. The vast majority of people you'll run into will also not be needing on anything. Let's look at the numbers again:

"Greed only": 1/4 chance to get stuff in dungeons.
"Need only": 1/7 chance to be able to need on armour + 3/7 chance that nobody will be able to need on armour, in which case 1/4 chance to get it through greed. Total: 1/7 + 3/7 * 1/4 = 1/4 Little to no change in loot gotten from dungeons.

[Zigabar]

Are there any counterpoints other than "I don't like change", "Don't take away my seals" and "Don't be so entitled"?

How about "fine as is" or "working as intended" or "use POTD and never want for leveling gear again"

[Settiesama]

Are there any counterpoints other than "I don't like change", "Don't take away my seals" and "Don't be so entitled"?
Remember: It's not just you who is no longer rolling need on anything. The vast majority of people you'll run into will also not be needing on anything. Let's look at the numbers again:

"Greed only": 1/4 chance to get stuff in dungeons.
"Need only": 1/7 chance to be able to need on armour + 3/7 chance that nobody will be able to need on armour, in which case 1/4 chance to get it through greed. Total: 1/7 + 3/7 * 1/4 = 1/4 Little to no change in loot gotten from dungeons.

I need cloth gear. Smn gear drops, no other Smn or Blm. 100% chance to get it with need, 25% chance to get with greed. Yeah, I'll take my 100%. If I wanted leather, I would go Nin or Mnk, see the point?

Sorry, but this system is fair as it is. Want the gear, play the job, simple solution. The biggest counterpoint, is that the system ain't broken, we shouldn't be fixing what ain't broke. YOU need to try to validate your points for a change, but all you are doing is repeating what has already been discussed pages back, and has already been shot down by logic.

[Mholito]

I need cloth gear. Smn gear drops, no other Smn or Blm. 100% chance to get it with need, 25% chance to get with greed. Yeah, I'll take my 100%. If I wanted leather, I would go Nin or Mnk, see the point?

Sorry, but this system is fair as it is. Want the gear, play the job, simple solution. The biggest counterpoint, is that the system ain't broken, we shouldn't be fixing what ain't broke. YOU need to try to validate your points for a change, but all you are doing is repeating what has already been discussed pages back, and has already been shot down by logic.

It seems we will not be able to find an agreement in this matter. I am in support of this system because it would reserve the need button only for those that want that particular item, as opposed to those that only want it for its numeric value. The only other change it would have, is that whether or not you get a drop is determined when people are rolling, rather than when the drop is determined. I see this as the ideal use of the need/greed system. It is clear that most people do not share this view though, so I'll leave it here.

[Settiesama]

It seems we will not be able to find an agreement in this matter. I am in support of this system because it would reserve the need button only for those that want that particular item, as opposed to those that only want it for its numeric value. The only other change it would have, is that whether or not you get a drop is determined when people are rolling, rather than when the drop is determined. I see this as the ideal use of the need/greed system. It is clear that most people do not share this view though, so I'll leave it here.

What exactly is the problem with asking if you want a certain piece? Play the job, get the loot for that job. Not on the job, ask if you may have it. Why is this so hard? That 'numeric value' is more important to alot of people than the piece itself as it helps them to get something even more important to them. For ilvl, it will be replaced VERY quickly. For glamour? Choose the job or ask.

[Vidu]

Are there any counterpoints other than "I don't like change", "Don't take away my seals" and "Don't be so entitled"?
Remember: It's not just you who is no longer rolling need on anything. The vast majority of people you'll run into will also not be needing on anything. Let's look at the numbers again:

I'm a bit surprised right now that all those "Remove need"-people didnt simply propose a token-system... like we had for several ARR-dungeons (snowcloak, Qarn etc. - tokens that could be exchanged for the ilvl90-job-gear) - so everyone could roll need on everything adn just get what they want in the end... but I guess that would be to easy...

Other than that, just as Settiesama said: I'll take my 100% on some drops and accept that others have a 100% aswell over 25% on all drops...

[SendohJin]

Are there any counterpoints other than "I don't like change", "Don't take away my seals" and "Don't be so entitled"?

none of those points matter. the only thing that does matter is you choose to play a job for that instance you get the benefits of playing that job for that instance. you reward effort.