Korean Live Letter and Job changes (Translated)

[Vhailor]

The problem is that the devs can only do so much with a playerbase nigh-obsessed with their compensation issues...er, "efficiency". The whole Zurvan EX debacle proves that with almost frightening clarity. The problem also lies in DPS players trying to cheat the system by queueing up as tanks or healers and playing both roles shockingly wrong. The devs cannot possibly set those issues right without punishing players who do play their roles the right way.

I'm not sure I agree here. The playerbase is only obsessed with DPS because SE's content encourages it. Some content involves fairly brutal DPS checks (typically EX Primals and Savage Raids), which obviously encourages players to optimize DPS. That said, mechanics-based content encourages it too, since SE doesn't effectively counter people 'pushing' mechanics and thereby simplifying a fight via higher-than-intended DPS. At an even more fundamental level, the design of FFXIV encourages rapid-fire spamming of short pieces of content, rather than more involved content that doesn't require, nor benefit from, spamming.

There's a lot SE could do to resolve this. They could design mechanics that punish rapid damage-dealing, or mechanics that draw the attention of the party away from a boss for periods of time. They could make longer dungeons, with appropriately increased rewards, and stick them in a Roulette that you can only do once every three days (with a max of twice a week). There are options. The catch is, SE has to both (a) recognize that the 'moar DPS' meta is a problem, and (b) bring themselves to look in the mirror and realize that some of their fundamental design philosophies are in fact creating the problem.

While those two are big 'ifs', I do think that if SE were to pull both off, they could shift the meta away from optimizing DPS. The player base, by and large, reacts to content; they wouldn't be so obsessed with their e-pe... ah... 'efficiency' if the content didn't reward them so thoroughly for it.

[Duelle]

I'm not sure I agree here. The playerbase is only obsessed with DPS because SE's content encourages it.

Not so much the content, but the way both the battle system and class design is tuned. That's what has allowed bad habits to form.

Some content involves fairly brutal DPS checks (typically EX Primals and Savage Raids), which obviously encourages players to optimize DPS. That said, mechanics-based content encourages it too, since SE doesn't effectively counter people 'pushing' mechanics and thereby simplifying a fight via higher-than-intended DPS. At an even more fundamental level, the design of FFXIV encourages rapid-fire spamming of short pieces of content, rather than more involved content that doesn't require, nor benefit from, spamming.

The thing is that DPS checks are there to challenge the DPSers in the group. There's encounters that are tank encounters (read: your tank not messing up leads to you getting the clear) and healing-intensive encounters. The third part of that is DPS check encounters.

This said, it isn't something mechanics alone can fix. You need to look at gameplay for the three roles as well.

They could design mechanics that punish rapid damage-dealing

This is counter-intuitive and sort of pisses on the DPS. I was not a fan of this when they tried it with Pharos Sirius (adds on the first boss spawn at certain HP percentages).

or mechanics that draw the attention of the party away from a boss for periods of time.

Unfortunately, for SE this translates into "more Dive Bombs and clones of Final Liberation". Add control would be a good approach, but I've yet to see SE try it in a way that is not "here's something else for you to hit for a while".

[Shurrikhan]

Not so much the content, but the way both the battle system and class design is tuned. That's what has allowed bad habits to form.

If it works because of what's designed, then they aren't bad habits. What works, works. The only thing that can be successfully while being less "skill-productive" is easy or narrowly involved content. That's it. Our dps-centric meta is actually more broadly involved for tanks and healers than more strictly divided or arbitrarily limited roles. That's not to say it isn't stunted—DPS have minimal responsibilities, and because their involvement/contribution is so singular in type and effect, it doesn't leave as much for healers or tanks to interact with as might otherwise be possible—but as I'm pretty sure the areas you take most issue with (going by your other posts, the role-blending in the "DPS meta" (really the "when secondary contribution is less effective than primary contribution right now, use primary contribution meta") are actually the ones that are more skill productive, those things are the few that least allow for bad habits to form.

The thing is that DPS checks are there to challenge the DPSers in the group. There's encounters that are tank encounters (read: your tank not messing up leads to you getting the clear) and healing-intensive encounters. The third part of that is DPS check encounters.

Consider though: every healing intensive part of a fight that is not pure unmitigatable damage uses more than just the healer; DPS and tanks are expected not to step in shit, to appropriately use CDs, etc. I see no issue in DPS checks being similarly multi-role, and I would actually very much like for "tank encounters" to be less dependent on a single person's having hit a scripted button at the right time, irrelevant to anything else happening in the fight or anything else that the party is doing.

[Designing mechanics to punish rapid damage-dealing] is counter-intuitive and sort of pisses on the DPS. I was not a fan of this when they tried it with Pharos Sirius (adds on the first boss spawn at certain HP percentages).

Agreed, though I actually liked it in that particular fight (Pharos 1st boss, pirate + dogs) because it allowed me to time add waves to crystal formation, AoE burst availability, etc.

Unfortunately, for SE this translates into "more Dive Bombs and clones of Final Liberation". Add control would be a good approach, but I've yet to see SE try it in a way that is not "here's something else for you to hit for a while".

Renauds in T7. And... that's kind of it, sadly.