Thread: 4.0 tank buff ability changes, please don't do this

Originally Posted by Greven

Rampart and Shadowskin are already the same skill. If they make it cross class it means both job will get a new skill which is specific of that job. I don't see any bad points in that or jobs losings "flavour"

this.
WAR is the Big Winner here, cause Crossclassskills are for all Tanks (as far as i understand it) so... WAR gets an additional good CD.

i'm okay to drop / lose Foresight for it ^^

Originally Posted by Greven

Rampart and Shadowskin are already the same skill. If they make it cross class it means both job will get a new skill which is specific of that job. I don't see any bad points in that or jobs losings "flavour"

We're going to be using roughly the same amout of abilities at 70 as we are now. Rampart is pretty mandatory, so moving it just moves it, it doesn't free up any extra space.

SO I have been reading this and mulling over the problem today. We know that they are going to do what they are going to do, but I would hate to loose the individuality of my tank. What if they add job specific side effects to the skills.

Now this is just me spit balling here, but something like -
Rampart:
PLD - higher damage reduction (maybe 25-30% instead of 20%)
WAR - only 10% damage reduction, but you get 10% of the damage taken back as HP
DRK - 10-20% damage reduction, and get 10% of the the damage taken back as MP

This would still allow for individuality between tanks, even for shared abilities.

Originally Posted by Jandor

We're going to be using roughly the same amout of abilities at 70 as we are now. Rampart is pretty mandatory, so moving it just moves it, it doesn't free up any extra space.

Actually it does considering that most of the currently extraneous crossclass skills are getting removed. The combination of freeing up space in the cross class skill list and then moving must have abilities from the class/job skill list frees up space in the class/job skill list. Rampart/Shadowskin will no longer take up space on the Paladin/Dark Knight skill list, it will now take up the space once filled by the likes of Fracture and Foresight.

You are also misunderstanding what was said about maintaining the same number of usable buttons at 70. They said that would be doing this by having more powerful abilities replace the older ones rather than having both abilities existing separately on the hot bars.


I would not be surprised if Flash got upgraded to Holiest of Holy at some point instead of giving Paladin's a "new" AoE.

Originally Posted by shadowalker0

SO I have been reading this and mulling over the problem today. We know that they are going to do what they are going to do, but I would hate to loose the individuality of my tank. What if they add job specific side effects to the skills.

Please do nor confuse Rampart/Shadowskin moving to the cross role list with loss of job individuality. This move is moving the "Must have abilities" (i.e. the abilities that SE needs every member of that role to have in order for them to be viable in content) which Paladin, Dark Knight and Warrior already have from the job list to the cross role list.

There is no need to add job specific effects to the skills.

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Actually it does considering that most of the currently extraneous crossclass skills are getting removed.

That's not confirmed. We don't yet know how many cross-class skills previously available to tanks will remain afterwards, whatever their categorical name. Moving Rampart or Shadowskin, each a job-unique animation and name for a dual-job skill, to a "role" skill does trade out a would-be cross-class slot on all three tanks for new job-unique skills on two. However,

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Please do nor confuse Rampart/Shadowskin moving to the cross role list with loss of job individuality. This move is moving the "Must have abilities" (i.e. the abilities that SE needs every member of that role to have in order for them to be viable in content) which Paladin, Dark Knight and Warrior already have from the job list to the cross role list.

There is no need to add job specific effects to the skills.

1. Rampart is clearly not a "must-have" ability if the widely viable tank hasn't needed it. Similarly, forcing it upon Warriors as a role-based skill only means that their current CD set would need to be rebalanced, likely towards even further homogenization. Which begs the question, why would you want to homogenize any part of such a crucial arsenal component. Provoke I can understand, lest SE is willing to create three different versions that wouldn't serve only to debalance tanks further, but Rampart? If anything, Shadowskin should simply be revised to be a bit more unique in the first place.

2. Unless their are distinct job effects on the role-skills, it is a loss of job individuality. It might not be a net loss, but it is nonetheless a loss of an aesthetically fitting name and animation for either of the two jobs sharing the skill effect. But, unless the replacing skill provides more to the job aesthetic than the one being replaced (which just as easily could retain a job-specific name and animation, thereby avoiding this whole compromise), that's a net loss, too.

The change is that the skill will give both PLD AND DRK a boost in P.DEF and M.DEF. And assuming WAR as well, since it will be Role Specific.