What is up with this toxic community

[Lexia]

Maybe it cause I'm on Balmung but I have never found there to be a "wonderful community", but then again Balmung does have it reputation for a reason.

[Adire]

Maybe it cause I'm on Balmung but I have never found there to be a "wonderful community", but then again Balmung does have it reputation for a reason.

I have more bad things to say about Balmung's community than good things, personally. If they offered free transfers from it, I'd gladly go to a smaller server.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Maybe it cause I'm on Balmung but I have never found there to be a "wonderful community", but then again Balmung does have it reputation for a reason.

See, I'm the exact opposite. I have met some incredibly nice players on Balmung and very few outright toxic ones.

Can relate: I just got harassed and kicked from a dungeon yesterday because they couldn't wait for me, the tank, to finish a single aggro combo, resulting in the dps pulling and dying twice (we wiped on first boss). The result was them (I think only one did not) harassing me, offending me and kicking me because I was "whining". Mind you that I never offended, nor attempted to troll or anything: i simply asked them, kindly too, to let me finish my first rotation and I told them to stop or kick me (with warning ensue). I got them reported anyway.

Not that I agree with them harassing but... wait for your first rotation? Do you mean to imply not attacking until you've done a full aggro combo? If so, that's a mistake on your part. As a tank, you open with either your ranged aggro ability or aoe chain pull depending on what you're aiming to do. At lower levels, you'll want to spam your aoe aggro ability at least 2-4 times then rotate your combo between mobs.

[Voltyblast]

Not that I agree with them harassing but... wait for your first rotation? Do you mean to imply not attacking until you've done a full aggro combo? If so, that's a mistake on your part. As a tank, you open with either your ranged aggro ability or aoe chain pull depending on what you're aiming to do. At lower levels, you'll want to spam your aoe aggro ability at least 2-4 times then rotate your combo between mobs.

First of all, it was Somh Al HM not some lame lower level dungeon where I'm so hindered that I can't even use butcher's block.
Secondly, I did use tomahawk and even if I didn't, I couldn't keep up because even before using skull sunder (aka the second attack) they already overaggroed like crazy and the guy died because of it: I'm 262 with a 260 relic so unless I totally suck (and I don't considering that I did another dungeon right after totally flawlessly), I can safely say that they didn't allow me to grab enough aggro to keep it stable. And funnily enough, their aggro meters didn't even 1/4 of the bar when I finished my very first rotation, which means something was wrong on their behalf. Plus I have enough tanking experience to see these kinds of mistakes and I wasn't bothered with it: what bothered me is their reaction to such a simple mistake and putting the blame on me.

Or what, are you going to say that it's safe for BLM to use fire 4 right of the bat, WITHOUT quelling strike, and blame it on the tank? ((this is just an example)

And let's assume just for a second that you're right (you're not) and that I did a mistake on how to keep aggro and stuff, are you saying it was right for them to offend me calling me the B word, letting me die for no reason (i was mass pulling like usual: did that before this argument arrived) and then kicking me because of that for absolutely no reason other than to put the blame on me?

Geeze this community IS toxic....

[Istaru]

Or what, are you going to say that it's safe for BLM to use fire 4 right of the bat, WITHOUT quelling strike, and blame it on the tank?

Yes, I was taught that as a tank, I should keep 100% of the enimity 100% of the time. If I didn't, then it was my fault. No excuses.

And let's assume just for a second that you're right (you're not) and that I did a mistake on how to keep aggro and stuff, are you saying it was right for them to offend me calling me the B word?

No, unless someone is mouthing off like a "B" or acting like one, they shouldn't be called one.

Letting me die for no reason (i was mass pulling like usual: did that before this argument arrived)?

No, letting someone die for giggles isn't right unless they were rude or mouthy. If they are, have at it.

Kicking me because of that for absolutely no reason other than to put the blame on me?

No, I already stated when I will kick someone and being bad at their job isn't one of them.

Geeze this community IS toxic....

Lastly, no we aren't. Some people are rude or whatever and some aren't. That is life.

If this is how you judge things then I guess all of humanity must be toxic. I met a white person who is rude, white people are toxic. That lady was mean, all women are toxic, I could go on but you should be able to see this ends up.

[Voltyblast]

My feelings on this: Yes, I was taught that as a tank, I should keep 100% of the enimity 100% of the time. If I didn't, then it was my fault. No excuses.

I could say the same for dps: I was taught that they should control their own aggro 100% of the time. If they don't, it's their fault. As a BLM I hardly overaggro and I do quite a good job thanks to "certain ways".

But serious talk here for a moment, no trolling no snarky comments and to prove it I'm using my main so I'm not hiding: mistakes happens and that is a rule of life and as I said before, let's assume I did something wrong (I don't honestly recall but I don't think so and If I did, I apologize in advance): they had no right to blame me like that. I wasn't bothered personally because hey, this is an mmorpg and frankly I expect nothing but awful people from them, FFXIV included. However, considering I asked them to be a little slower ("Let the tank finish the first aggro rotation maybe?" were my exact words), I don't see why they couldn't have done it earlier.

Still I tanked in this since 2.0, where Warriors were "bad", I have 2 tanking mounts, 3512 dungeons completed, 12 coils done (I never cleared turn 13) a Zeta Relic from ARR and completing the new one before the expansion hits, so I can safely say that I know what I'm doing. Sadly, mistakes happen and there might happen a moment, a single moment in these 4 years I played here, that I can commit a mistake and boom such as, I dunno, popping a wrong cooldown or using a wrong skill or anything andsuddenly my aggro is badly done, resulting in someone dying because of it. It's fine, "That is life" as you said and I am ready to apologize for said mistake: I have some dignity and I consider myself humble enough to say sorry when needed.

However you are saying there are no excuses? That a tank cannot do a mistake whatsoever? That a tank is obliged to always do his/her job correctly or they get the beating? That implies an elitistic behaviour and considering the amount of people who tell me that the people in here are "friendly and very reliable", you aren't exactly showing it.

If the guy who overaggroed simply allowed me to just hit with skull sunder at least once, or even finish the rotation, he would be fine but he did a mistake on his aggro. Should I've done better? Maybe, but considering nobody else did this I assumed they were chill. Could've taken aggro faster? Well yeah but it's not always required: I just finished another run of Sohm Al as I write this and I had no issue with aggro whatsoever and they were all well geared (at least 250-260), but hey sometimes mistakes happen and I'm okay with that. What I'm not okay is how a simple mistake automatically assumes you to be a bad player.

And the fact that, according to you, there's no excuse, still implies that the community is, unfortunately, quite toxic because if people were more lenient and actually patient and more flexible, the worst that would've happened was him apologizing for calling me that, I would've said the same, and we'd move on. But instead that did not happen and it only got worse. I may have pushed myself a little too far on reporting however It was unacceptable to treat me like that because of a mistake that I still believe it wasn't on me. I didn't want to end this way but it did.

And yes you might be correct: not everyone is toxic and I can agree with that but only partially, especially considering that in nearly 15 years of mmorpgs (I'm 27) in games like wow, tera, aion, swtor, ragnarok online, pso...I lost count now, I never had issues with other people in most of the other games: the only exception is GW2 which even lead to me quit for how toxic it was (we're talking of death threats to other players kind of bad).

And to be fair, I can judge how I want as long as I don't start bashing or offending others: I can have my own opinion but as long as I don't push on others, why should they care? It's my opinion that the community is "less than stellar", but beside the forums it's not that I'm going online and putting it on a PF and saying to all my server. For all I know you might despise me right now but as long as you don't go on my server and tell me directly or start harassing me, why should I be bothered?

[Istaru]

-SNIP- Sorry, way too much to individual respond to.

I apologize, I'm going to break down part of my response since you seem to be taking it personally.

My response:
Yes, I was taught that as a tank, I should keep 100% of the enimity 100% of the time. If I didn't, then it was my fault. No excuses.

No excuses.

That is in reference to what I was taught and what I aim for. I should have aggro all the time for all the things. To the people I learned from, saying "The BLM or ARC did not use quelling strikes" and I lost hate was not good enough. It was only an excuse, and they would not accept it. Their answer to those times were "You didn't do your job properly."

I am not saying you did something wrong. Only, the standard I try to hold myself to. I am not going to say that I achieve it 100% of the time, I don't. But, I am always going to aim for it.

On the rest of your original post, I pretty much agreed with you that, given your side of the story, they were a bit over the top.

I do not agree that a couple or a few bad experiences with a group equals they are toxic. If most of your experiences are positive, then saying they are bad is not truly representative of that group.

You said you have done 3500 dungeons, how many have been truly negative experiences?

And since you tossed out some numbers, here are some of mine:

I also have 2 tank mounts, DRK and PLD
I have completed about 6,000 dungeons
I completed all 13 turns of coil
I completed 6 Zetas, 4 are in some stage of completion.(PLD, DRG, BLM, WHM, BRD and NIN)
I have all 13 animas in some stage of completion. (SMN, WHM, AST & BRD are all i230 or higher).

That is only for my main, my alt has done many of the same things, zodiac, anima, coil, etc.

I think I can also say that I know things.

I do not think the community is toxic or overly toxic. There are bad people in the community, but they are the minirity of people I come across. Most are at least decent people, some are nice.

[Voltyblast]

That is in reference to what I was taught and what I aim for. I should have aggro all the time for all the things. To the people I learned from, saying "The BLM or ARC did not use quelling strikes" and I lost hate was not good enough. It was only an excuse, and they would not accept it. Their answer to those times were "You didn't do your job properly."

Mistakes happen, that is a rule of life, and we learn from our mistakes and improve on them. The only excuse here is if you kept doing the mistake and never wanted to improve upon them. I don't know who taught you this but, "I bend but I do not break" is the best thing I can say here because, sometimes, you have to admit your mistakes (heck I admit that I tend to over generalize this game's community and I tend to have a grudge on it), but sometimes I have to admit that I do find good people. Rarely but I do find them. It's the same for tanking: if you pretend perfection without exceptions you'll eventually break instead of bending. I'm far from perfect but as long as I get the job done, I don't really have a problem.

With that said...

I do not think the community is toxic or overly toxic. There are bad people in the community, but they are the minirity of people I come across. Most are at least decent people, some are nice.

To give a general idea of what you said: I don't think all of my 3513 runs were terrible BUT, and this is a big one, in comparison to other games I played, the amounts of bad people I met during these 4 years it's the same, if not double more than I met during my 11 years of wow, and that's ONE game.

I obviously played a lot of WoW (and also a lot of TERA, while the others I only played for a year or two at best) and let's take WoW as a comparison for the moment because at least most of us knows it or even played it one day in the past: in the 11 years i I played it (I started in 2006, near TBC launch) I had more or less the same amount of bad people I had in ffxiv in the span of 4 years and that includes raids. And while the general opinion about WoW is that "its community is toxic" - and I won't disagree there - however I found mostly helpful and generally "good" people whenever I did my dungeons in that game, while this game seems apathic and rarely helpful at all. Heck my first mythic in wow I was so scared but the people were quite patient and never bashed me for having "less than optimal gear" (I was 840) and that surprised me considering all the "omg wow is so bad" vibe the game gets. I was shocked in a good way.

On the other hand, in this game I often had to deal with toxicity in my trials and raids (dungeons a bit less thankfully), with quite a good amount of people bashing on newbies like me for going in without knowing the proper ways (even as a first timer). Heck, I quit nidhogg EX because someone was quite harsh on me because "I did not know how to move during p3", it made me tear up. Granted the person apologized so there was no debate but...really? Did she had to tell me that "how can you not understand this, if you did coil?" That's something I NEVER experienced before and even if I did, it was never so mean or anything this bad. I felt so destroyed that I quitted primal clearing until 3.5 and now I'm on Zurvan thanks to ME and nobody else. Nobody bothers to help newbies or people held back like me as you know.

So does my post say the community is bad? Yes, but I suppose I'm over the top and exaggerating a lot of time and considering I can't lash out of what I think about the community in game without being considered a troll (not that I care, but I'd like to spend my time in game differently), this is the only place I can go full out without being considered crazy.
Oh no I'm not joking there: I was suddenly ostracized by a FC during ARR for disagreeing that the community is good (literally disagreeing, no harsh rebuke or offending words), to the point that nobody would talk to me and the second in command whispered me to see if I was "mentally distressed". Yep, apparently saying the community is "not good" equals to being considered mentally disordered! And that was sad because I loved these guys and I remember spending so much time with them in primals and stuff (I played with them for about 6 months) and suddenly saying something "different" turned me into the black sheep. Suffice to say, I will never join a FC ever again and to this day I'm still FCless

So either I had the worst case of luck ever or maybe the good people are hiding or something, but considering my past experience and how people generally say "this is the best community ever" (which I often mock it, I admit it), I simply can't agree with that statement overall: I find it to be average at best and, in all honesty, not too different from WoW in many aspects and, to sum my experience up, I had more negatives than positives.

However I will say this: I am always open to surprises and if I start seeing better people in the game, I'll be more than glad to take my words back.

By the way just in case, I just replied to give you a better idea of my thoughts but nothing more. I'm glad we haven't reached into harsh rebukes or such. I prefer to avoid needless fights.

[Shougun]

I apologize, I'm going to break down part of my response since you seem to be taking it personally.

My response:
Yes, I was taught that as a tank, I should keep 100% of the enimity 100% of the time. If I didn't, then it was my fault. No excuses.

No excuses.

WHM casts Medica II during your train trash pull, even the best will not keep 100% lol (as you have to turn around and pick them up). Leveling tank with acceptable for that dungeon gear, everyone else max geared, tank doesn't have their tank stance due to dungeon, BLM goes balls to the wall deeps on your non marked monster peels from tank. Shield Lob while going into position, DD does a triple flare rotation out the gates the second your shield lob hits and before you have a chance to finish your 1 2 3 (yes you could provoke but if the boss has already queued an attack, you're going to see one attack go off regardless and everything be out of position). Also just to be coy.. Some monsters don't have an enmity table so.. :3 lol.

Pretty sure there are moments its not the tank's fault if its 95% of the time 100% of the time :P.

[Kosmos992k]

Not that I agree with them harassing but... wait for your first rotation? Do you mean to imply not attacking until you've done a full aggro combo? If so, that's a mistake on your part.

Hang on a minute. You're actually condoning people who could not wait 7 seconds before unloading to allow a tank to grab hate? 7 seconds is enough for a basic aggro combo on a high level tank. How was VoltyBlast supposed to gain aggro if everyone opens up the taps on their DPS before a basic hate combo is done?


I don't know, that 7 or so seconds seems a really short time for folks to be patient, and an inability to wait that long strikes me as pretty toxic.