Is our sub fee not enought

[Vaer]

Extra money for extra stuff, how is this new to anyone?

The problem most people seem to have is mainly that there is a subscription attached in the first place which seems to be the main point of the thread. If the model was a buy game, no sub, there would be a lot less resistance to a cash shop.

You already have to purchase the game, and on top of that you lose access to everything you already purchased (including cash shop items) if you don't pay the subscription.

I guess in the simplest terms you could say some people think the subscription fee is already paying extra.

[Skivvy]

As a glamour gobbling Balmung player, I have to respectfully disagree. You do not need a glam to win the game, it is different. Let me show you how I see it, maybe that will help you understand where I am coming from.

I work in the death trade, mortuaries. Now when you die your body has to be dealt with, that's the law, let's call that the basic sub. So with no frills everyone at the start of things (for their sub) gets the basic of the basic service ok. But some want glamour, for a fancy funeral to impress friends and enemies is their "end game". Now you don't need that, legally we can put anyone in the ground for a flat fee, the same fee. But if you want something.... demand it, should my company not provide it? Or provide it and eat the cost? No, of course not. If you want Saudi desert roses, you bet your tail I'll find some and as any business would, charge accordingly. Is that a cash grab? To provide extra services or extra cost that have been requested by my customers? No, its business, and honestly insane to expect that extra stuff beyond the basic package to be free. It's insane, the signatures I see, the posts, all going on about how SE should make everything free, to put everything in their game and just say f-profit.


Its not a White Knight issue, its a business person's issue. It makes me wonder how many of the people who complain against the CS understand how business work. The /playdead has been requested for years, my history will show at least 6-10 posts asking for it. So as a business I can see the meeting going, "We are between patches, revenue is down a little. Options?" To which someone would say, "Lots of request for /playdead." Someone gets put on the project, takes a few weeks IDK programing, but I do know the lad/lady working on it got paid, has insurance, most likely got overtime in an office with lights, internet, plumbing, all things that are not free (ie, overhead). No that stuff is not already there, someone on a small team is put on something like that its most likely an extra project meaning overtime and resources added like lights on at night to allow for work.

So true we don't know where the money goes in detail but with a little thought it is not hard to sort out that the emote was not free to make. We have to pay extra for extra things. If you want exotic flowers at your funeral you need to pay me extra. If you want an extra ranch sauce from McDonalds you have to pay extra. If you want better seats on your flight you need to pay extra. Extra money for extra stuff, how is this new to anyone?

Your mortuary analogy doesn't really fit. If in the past, up until three years ago, your mortuary provided an all-inclusive service for a set fee, then maybe it would be relevant.

[ErikMynhier]

The problem most people seem to have is mainly that there is a subscription attached in the first place which seems to be the main point of the thread. If the model was a buy game, no sub, there would be a lot less resistance to a cash shop.

You already have to purchase the game, and on top of that you lose access to everything you already purchased (including cash shop items) if you don't pay the subscription.

I guess in the simplest terms you could say some people think the subscription fee is already paying extra.

Yes and the game was included in the purchase and the playing and social aspect paid by the sub. Extra things after that should be charged for as they would be in any business model.

[ErikMynhier]

Your mortuary analogy doesn't really fit. If in the past, up until three years ago, your mortuary provided an all-inclusive service for a set fee, then maybe it would be relevant.

It is relevant as it is an example of how a business has a flat rate for standard services and charge for extra. This has been the business model for many businesses forever. It is the way of business, for good or ill.

[Lexia]

Well SE does like their money and knows their customer base will pay up. I believe either yoshi-p or SE directly said that XIV would never be f2p and they were shut down XIV if couldn't make money off the sub model.

[Skivvy]

It is relevant as it is an example of how a business has a flat rate for standard services and charge for extra. This has been the business model for many businesses forever. It is the way of business, for good or ill.

The business model for at least two very well-known paid subscription games, including SE's only other MMO, was that all items were included for your subscription fee. You can't place every single product into a tidy little basket and expect them all to conform to the same business rules. Different products come with a different set of services and expectations from the consumer.

[Vaer]

Yes and the game was included in the purchase and the playing and social aspect paid by the sub. Extra things after that should be charged for as they would be in any business model.

Again, they feel with the subscription that they are paying enough and it should cover the extras. This isn't a "Well SE shouldn't be able to make money", no one is getting anything for free in the first place everyone is paying some amount of money.

[Stormrider]

Do you ask for financial transparency from any other business you get extra things from? The example I give with McDonalds, the extra sauce, some McDs will charge for it. Critical thinking can break down, without statements of finance, that we pay extra as it dips into stocks that have to be bought or replenished. Its logical thought.

Sorry maybe I misused the word transparency? All prices are on the sign and any change is well documented and put forward. It also has some sort of logical thought process to it. The sauce may cost a much larger % of the burger then we know. As ingredients prices fluctuate on amount of production. But they can not charge the same price. Big mac Meal is 5.99 extra sauce is 25 cents. But maybe the sauce literally cost 25 cents. Could they charge 60 cents 10% of what the actual meal costs. Also some of the stuff on cash shop has physically been paid for once.

SE prices are randomly and feel like what is the max profit not a percentage of cost. Moogle mount 29.99 USD, to seller on ps4 game 59.99 USD. I don't need any math to see one asset per character compared to a full game.

What I want is 100% upfront pricing structure and what it gives us. If we have a cash shop that is fine. But I want to know monthly sub is X amount of content per year and cash shop is X amount of content per year and will include X content. That is the transparency I want. Also on the topic of upfront. That they don't ever want all players to have the same game experience. Or they would not make certain design decisions.

Not to be mean but you sound like the head office guys who increase prices for production and then complain sales are down but then trot out the amazing gross on sales.

[Reynhart]

I guess in the simplest terms you could say some people think the subscription fee is already paying extra.

The subscription is already paying all the patches

[SDaemon]

Now let's move on to WoW. The big one! This is what XIV is constantly being compared to. They didn't introduce their cash shop until 2013. 9 years is a lot of time for someone to get used to having their subscription cover all available items.

The Blizzard Store was introduced long before 2013, with optional purchasable items such as name, race, server changes, transmog (2013), pets and mounts. The only new territory they've delved into in the last couple years were the level boost and game time tokens. Everything that SE has been putting in their shop up until now has been a staple for Blizzard and WoW for 7+ years.

2010 had mounts and pets, 2011-12 added more, 2013 the transmog helms came out with more mounts as well.