Is our sub fee not enought

[Grawbad]

Still does not in any shape or form make it forced

Simply saying you don't have to buy them doesn't even correlate to their problem with it.
It is that if they want everything in the game they have to pay a sub fee and pay extra for other things. Yes that is if they WANT to, but not the point.
In the past it was not this way, it has morphed into this over time. F2P had micro. P2P did not. No doubt they are taking notes from Blizzard.
I care not either way.
But neither side is wrong on this, it is their opinion on the matter.
Again, just because they are not FORCED to buy it, doesn't alleviate what their concern is. The concern is that they don't get everything for what they already pay.

A legitimate concern, as much as it doesn't bother you is a legitimate feeling.

[Reynhart]

The concern is that they don't get everything for what they already pay.

They're the one assuming they already paid for everything. Exactly like the Disneyland comparison, these people would be surprised having to pay extra cash for food.

[Kosmos992k]

They're the one assuming they already paid for everything. Exactly like the Disneyland comparison, these people would be surprised having to pay extra cash for food.

Except that FFXIV started as an all inclusive theme resort, and has now started seeming a bit more like a nickel and dime resort where the basic room and board are covered, but the extras that make a vacation are extra.

Honestly, I would prefer to see a modest sub increase, it's been steady for almost 4 years, inflation is still real, and I would prefer to pay up front instead of being nickel and dimed to death. There is a reason I and many others despise the F2P model. Seeing this whale hunting in a game with a strong subscription model is dissapointing.

[Seig345]

Except that FFXIV started as an all inclusive theme resort, and has now started seeming a bit more like a nickel and dime resort where the basic room and board are covered, but the extras that make a vacation are extra.

Honestly, I would prefer to see a modest sub increase, it's been steady for almost 4 years, inflation is still real, and I would prefer to pay up front instead of being nickel and dimed to death. There is a reason I and many others despise the F2P model. Seeing this whale hunting in a game with a strong subscription model is dissapointing.

One of the reasons I said the theme park comparison wasn't entirely 1:1 was, for example, the recent "Little Lady's Day" event. For roughly 30 minutes or less of effort, the game gives you vouchers for a 5 piece exclusive outfit and an emote. No cash shop tie-in or special extra purchases necessary outside of the game and subscription fee. Gettin' some free souvenirs there, but I guess maybe that could be tied into a limited time special or something.

Now, I see the kerfluffle are certain things like that /playdead emote where instead of there being an event for these, they were put straight into the shop. But I feel like the chicken/egg question with those is whether or not the devs would have created these straight-to-cash-shop items if there hadn't been a cash-shop to monetize the production time put into making them. We haven't suddenly stopped getting new outfits and emotes handed out to us for free* (*game price and subscription, yadda yadda), we still get those, in addition to these straight-to-shop items that I'm unsure if you can really prove whether these items would even have been created if SE had not plopped the cash shop down on the game.

Basically, you still get the same complimentary breakfast at the hotel, but now the hotel offers the option of a premium breakfast room service options for an additional fee.

Edit:

[...]
Honestly, I would prefer to see a modest sub increase, it's been steady for almost 4 years, inflation is still real, and I would prefer to pay up front instead of being nickel and dimed to death [...]

While I understand you want to just pay everything up front; not everyone cares about the extra items in the shop, so it would potentially cause a drop in subs if people saw their subscription fee go up for the sake of items they weren't even interested in to begin with.

Maybe they could introduce a premium subscription option for those who are interested in getting those additional items tied in without feeling nickel and dimed.

[Zojha]

While I understand you want to just pay everything up front; not everyone cares about the extra items in the shop, so it would potentially cause a drop in subs if people saw their subscription fee go up for the sake of items they weren't even interested in to begin with.

Could we please apply the same logic to content like Savage Raids? Because as it stands, it's included in the subscription fees, despite not everyone being interested in them to begin with. Let's allow people to reduce their subscription fees if they don't care about that kind of content.

Actually, just make a bunch of boxes for content you can tick, then have the sub fee calculated automatically from that.

[Seig345]

Could we please apply the same logic to content like Savage Raids? Because as it stands, it's included in the subscription fees, despite not everyone being interested in them to begin with. Let's allow people to reduce their subscription fees if they don't care about that kind of content.

Actually, just make a bunch of boxes for content you can tick, then have the sub fee calculated automatically from that.

If you want to take the game's primary feature, online RPG combat/cooperatiob, and compare it to a dress and a wind-up doll, that's your prerogative.

[Grawbad]

They're the one assuming they already paid for everything. Exactly like the Disneyland comparison, these people would be surprised having to pay extra cash for food.

Their assumption of paying for everything comes directly from the fact that P2P games were always that way. Indeed it was one of the arguing points for P2P games over F2P and why it was worth it to pay per month.
The analogy for Disneyland is not a proper one because one always expects to pay for other things like food unless one paid extra for something that was ALL INCLUSIVE. Which is what P2P games once were.
A better analogy would be a product that you always bought that was all inclusive and later they decide to start selling things on top of it.
But again, I digress.
Your opinion on the matter is valid, the problem here is, so is theirs.

[Reynhart]

Their assumption of paying for everything comes directly from the fact that P2P games were always that way.

Considering WoW has a cashshop since around the same time as ARR was released, and FFXI made you pay for any additional character back in 2002, maybe it's time to stop grieving.

[Skivvy]

Considering WoW has a cashshop since around the same time as ARR was released, and FFXI made you pay for any additional character back in 2002, maybe it's time to stop grieving.

WoW has been around since 2004 and only added a cash shop near the end of 2013. XI allowed you access to all content/items/etc* on your character. Making you pay for additional character slots would be on par with standard account services, e.g world transfer, name changes, etc. It is nice we get those included automatically these days.


*Once again, excluding fan fest, CE/promotional items, expansion packs, etc.