Is our sub fee not enought

[Kaedan]

"On the house" - NOTHING in this game is free. We are required to pay a sub to access it.

If FFXIV is going to put increasingly more items in the shop rather than do what they have in the past and release them directly to the game for only our sub fee, then yes - I would prefer they go free-to-play, because I do not agree that they should be able to double-dip as they have.

There are plenty of exclusive items in the cash shop... it's not a recent thing at all. The point that you seem to be missing is that they are all cosmetic and/or can be earned in game (dyes, old event items).

Just because you want something in the cash shop doesn't mean that you're entitled to it. No more than you were entitled to any of the special glamours or mounts that have been released so far. In the real world, that means SE is doing their job properly as a business. They are correctly incentivizing if they have made you want to buy something.

You seem to continually forget that SE isn't a charity. They provide services and content for your sub. Access to every cosmetic in the game was never part of the sub deal.

[Naunet]

They are correctly incentivizing if they have made you want to buy something.

You seem to continually forget that SE isn't a charity. They provide services and content for your sub. Access to every cosmetic in the game was never part of the sub deal.

They aren't correctly incentivizing, however, as I refuse to purchase things for such a poor value.

But ah, that good ol' charity fallacy. I don't owe SE money for the sake of it existing. They have to deserve it. MY wallet is not a charity, either.

[Skivvy]

So basically its just a bunch of anti business people here because look around there are zero sub based games with no cash shop, its hardly any sub games left period.

What a load of absolute rubbish. I am all for businesses, but they have to learn how to not gouge their customers if they want to keep people happy.

Is it that time of day where we just start throwing around crazy accusations?

[Belhi]

What a load of absolute rubbish. I am all for businesses, but they have to learn how to not gouge their customers if they want to keep people happy.

Is it that time of day where we just start throwing around crazy accusations?

Is there any content you can not play with just your sub? Are they failing to produce new armour and glamour sets every patch?

I have an issue with Cash Shops if the developer is failing to produce content at a regular basis. FF14 doesn't do that. They give as a huge number of new sets, mounts, minions and emotes every 3 and a half months save for expansion launches and very rare occasions.

There is a difference between gouging you customers and trying to establish additional revenue streams. Ever asked for a new feature for FF14? The money for that has to come from somewhere. How would you suggest they make additional revenue to cover additional features?

The consumer. It is clear how some consumers feel. Two on the house? Last time I checked I can't earn anything on the house.

Three lets talk value since you brought up what we received for our monthly sub. How does 7 equal out to what we have received. This comes up with the moogle mount. It is only 30 dollars. One second on amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._i=468642&th=1 So a full game is equal to a mount. It is not about companies making money. It is about abusing customers. I am sure you will never get that. I feel sorry for people who have little understanding of value. It is why companies can charge 300% mark up for medicines.

These aren't the same as medicines. Medicines are usually a necessity. Games and everything tied to them are luxuries. People can get by very easily without buying them and if people weren't paying what they are charging they wouldn't be pricing them that way.

No one is being forced to buy Cash Shop items. They are completely unnecessary to play the game.

[Stormrider]

No one is being forced to buy Cash Shop items. They are completely unnecessary to play the game.

You are missing the point when consumers do nothing or even approve it emboldens companies to take more. And no not all medicines are considered a necessity or governments wouldn't allow for obscene mark up. Some medication are covered or protected and others that aren't considered a necessity even if you are passing away or suffering. I also live in a country with decent protection for the people.

I am sure we could make a huge list of basic Quality of Life stuff that has a mark up because they can. It isn't about if you need the emote or not. If it was 1 dollar i still wouldn't pay for it. It is the idea that it is ok to do that.

[Shougun]

There is a difference between gouging you customers and trying to establish additional revenue streams. Ever asked for a new feature for FF14? The money for that has to come from somewhere. How would you suggest they make additional revenue to cover additional features?

Well of course there will be people who say "any price higher than $0 is price gouging" lol, but I would say that even if they develop stuff in game that doesn't make any price used on the Cash Shop to be non-gouging. Personally would suggest they add a Kupo Nut cash shop currency that you get by having a subscription, then go through and make everything account wide and or retrievable where it makes sense like the LotR ID system to the housing trees so if someone trys to delete it instead it will be sent to your mail box, wedding bangle can't be wasted so easily, a better system to handle credit card failure, ability to mix Kupo Cash with real cash (turn that $30 mount into a $5 mount - if you had $25 Kupo Cash), finally refrain from having many unique items invented onto the shop frequently (not saying never, but just like don't make 20 unique items a month lol).

For SE's side they would see more players visit the shop as everyone would have a bit of Kupo Cash and thus reason to visit; however, they players wouldn't earn enough Kupo Cash to make the whole shop invalid only enough that if they chose to they could save up for that mount or one missed event from years past. Increased traffic would be helpful in getting people to see other items they may want to purchase, but the fact you could get everything from your subscription would allow other players (and SE themselves) to better defend that you can use just a sub to get all the available.

At least imo, a big part of arguments I see, and personally bothers me, is that it is /impossible/ to get certain items (besides the shop) or that they're priced for whales. So perhaps they can encourage players even more to stay subscribed, veteran replacement system, (build up the KC, Kupo Cash) and visit the shop, if someone had $5 in KC and saw the $7 emote really they could buy it for $3 that'd probably make them feel much better about it (or $0, if you have $7 KC) - so the KC could effectively discount items to non-whale pricing IF you don't buy every item under the sun. But the whales love to buy stuff so they will, buying faster than the KC given means that SE still can price at the whale level.

Sales would probably receive more visits too, so when they visit without a lot of KC they may still be willing to purchase from the shop as they've already personally used the shop multiple times before, they've tasted from your opium well sort of speak lol (SE: *evil laughter*). I believe it would increase actual purchase rates, they just have to make sure the amount of KC you get is neither too much (makes cash shop pointless, investors will slap someone) or too little (players will say great I get $2 KC a year, that gets me nothing, thanks for ruining the veteran system).

KC would basically be mog shop specific Crysta, since you can use Crysta for your subscription too. This sort of thing could also replace the Veteran system - so they don't have to consider that anymore (they can keep making new items but the veteran reward would be the choice to buy those new items or old items, whatever - do with it what you will), and they can add all old veteran rewards to the mog shop (which would be helpful for new players to the game who would be really sad its going to take them 2 years to get cloud's costume otherwise). I sort of suggested this Veteran change a long time ago, but didn't think of it in context of the Mog shop as much as a Veteran shop, but later I realized other MMOs have done this to fairly successful extents (like Everquest - which moved into the sort of system I'm describing) I think it might not be a bad thing for them to think about this. At least imo, being able to occasionally reduce price, or even sometimes after building up your KC stock being able to pay for the entire item, as well as take away the exclusive argument, would give the Cash Shop a lot more morale than it does now - which is "overpriced, too many, exclusive".

[Stormrider]

But who writes the rules on what a game can and can not do

The consumer. It is clear how some consumers feel. Two on the house? Last time I checked I can't earn anything on the house.

Three lets talk value since you brought up what we received for our monthly sub. How does 7 equal out to what we have received. This comes up with the moogle mount. It is only 30 dollars. One second on amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._i=468642&th=1 So a full game is equal to a mount. It is not about companies making money. It is about abusing customers. I am sure you will never get that. I feel sorry for people who have little understanding of value. It is why companies can charge 300% mark up for medicines.

[Kosmos992k]

Personally, I am of the opinion that the Cash shop is here to stay (unfortunately), but there is one thing that *must* change.

The cost of things like mounts, outfits and emotes is too high - especially where these things are limited to a single character. I mean hells bells, paying two months full sub for an outfit, and only one of my characters can wear it? Dammit SE I pay a full sub to have more characters, Stop cheaping out and let these things be account wide - we already pay more for more characters.

At very least switch to two tier pricing with the current full price being the price for account wide and a price 40-50% lower being the single character price. I'd imagine that this would actually increase your business because people turned off by paying so much for single character things, would be more likely to buy with the increased value of making them account wide; and people turned off by the cost completely would have a less expensive option for a single character.

Sounds like a win-win.

It's $7 for an emote that in the past would have been added as a quest reward, and it's not even account-wide. Think about dollar value here, for crying out loud... $7 in the free-to-play game I play takes me a LOT further, and that game didn't start putting basic emotes in the cash shop. PLUS everything is account-wide there.

Also, this is not a free-to-play game; we already are required to pay a monthly sub to access it.

Indeed. I mean as I said above, the cash shop is here to stay, I think that is inevitable. However the gouging us by charging so highly for an emote - on a single character is just bad. I think it's bad business as I suggested above. I mean if I pay full sub I can have multiple characters on a server, up to 40 characters in total, imagine if I wanted that emote across them all, $280. Not gonna happen. For that matter, why would I spend half a month's sub (for all 40 characters) on an emote I can use on only 1 character?

Holy crap for that matter two emotes together cost as much as ARR does when on sale, where's the value again? The prices are just too damn high - especially for single character things.

[Teryaani]

At very least switch to two tier pricing with the current full price being the price for account wide and a price 40-50% lower being the single character price. I'd imagine that this would actually increase your business because people turned off by paying so much for single character things, would be more likely to buy with the increased value of making them account wide; and people turned off by the cost completely would have a less expensive option for a single character.

Sounds like a win-win.

They could accomplish this by going the Blizzard route and having minions, mounts, appearances, and cheevos account wide.

[Kosmos992k]

They could accomplish this by going the Blizzard route and having minions, mounts, appearances, and cheevos account wide.

I'd find the Mogstation much more acceptable if all non-consumable items were account wide. $7 for an emote is far more reasonable across my account, but on one character it's just ridiculous. And I'm saying that while Kos has the Chinese dress. That product should absolutely have been account wide. The summer promotional items were all account wide and they were free, this one outfit (Chinese Dress) was both expensive and limited to a single character. It almost makes me wish I hadn't bought the thing.