Stop Giving the "Need" Command for Drop Gear in Dungeons to Higher Geared Players!

[Masekase_Hurricane]

If you don’t want a piece pass on it. If you want a specific piece communicate this to your party (same thing as now).

if it aint broke dont fix it

The last thing this game needs is more options to avoid communication.

[Emstidor]

If I'm playing a Monk and a piece of Monk gear drops, I should have priority to get the item. Not because I deserve it more, not because I need it more, not even because I'm the one who wants it the most, but because it's psychologically satisfying that if Monk gear drops, the Monk has first dibs. This is basic game design 101.

Your proposed system would leave me at the mercy of the seal-hunting Paladin, the White Mage that wants the piece for glamour, and the Dragoon with the Monk at level 14 who wants to gear it someday. That's unacceptable.

"Oh, but you can just ask them at the start of the dungeon if you can have it"

Stop. It doesn't matter if I can ask them. It doesn't matter if I got matched with the nicest players on the server, or the biggest group of dicks who'll purposely roll just to make sure I don't get it. I'm playing the class that matches the gear that dropped. They're not. I get first dibs. They don't. Full stop.

Again, it's an extremely basic tenet tied to a non-stupid reward structure of any MMORPG.

[bardaboo]

If I'm playing a Monk and a piece of Monk gear drops, I should have priority to get the item. Not because I deserve it more, not because I need it more, not even because I'm the one who wants it the most, but because it's psychologically satisfying that if Monk gear drops, the Monk has first dibs. This is basic game design 101.

Your proposed system would leave me at the mercy of the seal-hunting Paladin, the White Mage that wants the piece for glamour, and the Dragoon with the Monk at level 14 who wants to gear it someday. That's unacceptable.

"Oh, but you can just ask them at the start of the dungeon if you can have it"

Stop. It doesn't matter if I can ask them. It doesn't matter if I got matched with the nicest players on the server, or the biggest group of dicks who'll purposely roll just to make sure I don't get it. I'm playing the class that matches the gear that dropped. They're not. I get first dibs. They don't. Full stop.

Again, it's an extremely basic tenet tied to a non-stupid reward structure of any MMORPG.

Careful now... you're about to get drawn in to a 10page debate with someone who is intent on not seeing your point. He'll probably twist your words to drag on the discussion too.

[Cordie]

Um, this is an MMO with random number generation drop chances. All gear rewards are incentives, because enough effort will eventually yield the desired item. Are semantics the only fuel you have left?

Well? Is it removed per my suggestion? Did I mention anywhere “abolish loot drops” or something?

Look at your table, now back at these numbers. Now look back at that table. First off, there is at most a 2.1% difference in left side gear, which does not equate to a 34% skew. I think you need to make sure you aren't trying to over-complicate your formulas there.

This is not what skewness is, but anyways, I’ll give you a better breakdown of who gets how much with “need” rolls:
(values from the table, with a correction in NIN/BRD/MCH accessories for full party case – 9.3% instead of 9.5%)
Light party – left-side gear
75th-100th percentile: 6 (all tanks and healers)
25th-75th percentile: 3 (all melee)
<25th percentile: 4 (all ranged dps)

Light party – accessories
75th-100th percentile: 6 (all tanks and healers)
25th-75th percentile: 0
<25th percentile: 7 (all dps)

Full party (1 taank) – left side gear
75th-100th percentile: 6 (all tanks and melee)
25th-75th percentile: 0
<25th percentile: 7 (all ranged dps and all healers)

Full party (1 taank) – accessories
75th-100th percentile: 3 (all tanks and DEX-based dps)
25th-75th percentile: 4 (STR-based melee and all casters)
<25th percentile: 3 (all healers)

Yes, it's magic that chances of obtaining certain gear plummet when you take away the one method used to ensure a decent probability.Also, I imply nothing. You clearly stated yourself in a single claim:
[…]
You were saying? I'm not mixing statements (pretty sure the OP's long gone from the feedback they received), I'm just giving you a healthy dose of differing opinion using your own provided data.
[…]
Not even close, look at your own math, or are you saying your table is a sham? You reach the 3% range on specific pieces of gear only when you take away the priority given to a class/role for specific gear pieces. If those other 3-7 people see their class/role gear drop, they have nigh equivalent chances as you do if yours drops. Or are you going to try and add more variables to convolute your formula to try and justify your point?

OK, I see where your confusion comes from:
If you paid closer attention to that post with the table you quoted you would have noticed that I am not drawing any conclusions from comparing the two probabilities (table and 25% or 12.5%), since it was intended as an intuitive comparison of how “often” you will get guaranteed loot for the case of rolling “need”.
However, you are bringing the argument of getting so much lower chances by comparing them while conveniently excluding the cases one might not be in a job with affinity to the item type, and conveniently ignoring that the cases you just excluded are included in the greed-only scenario.
Have you taken into account all 6 need cases I mentioned?

My suggestion benefits (i) those that want gear for a class they aren’t playing to the same extent it benefits
(ii) those who want gear for the class they are playing,
(iii) those who want gear for glamours for a class they aren’t playing,
(iv) those who want gear for glamours for the class they are playing,
(v) those who want gear for desynths,
(vi) those who want the gear for seals.
It is exactly the same for everyone.

I did.

[...] because it's psychologically satisfying [...]

"because it's psychologically satisfying".. hmmmm.. that's a new one.. Want me to add it to my list?

My suggestion benefits (i) those that want gear for a class they aren’t playing to the same extent it benefits
(ii) those who want gear for the class they are playing,
(iii) those who want gear for glamours for a class they aren’t playing,
(iv) those who want gear for glamours for the class they are playing,
(v) those who want gear for desynths,
(vi) those who want the gear for seals.
(vii) those who want gear because it's "psychologically satisfying"
It is exactly the same for everyone.

[Mejingjard]

Let me get it short : OP wants a way to prevent every better geared player to be able to need the loots that suits their class, just for him to increase is chance of getting it for a class he does not play?
How does it work? The game check every ilvls for every class of each pelayer in the duty, then if they are above thoses of the OP, they cannot need the item?
Seriously this is one of the most self entitled topic I'v seen in a while. Who do you think you are?

The whole game revolves around new players, throwing loots at them like candies for litteraly NOTHING. But no that's not enough, let takes off the privilege of veteran players to "need" on their class specific loots, right ?
We are already poorly treated as veteran players, when it comes to rewards (have you ever seen how is the loot system in raids? no, I'm sure you have not the slighest clue about how we can struggle to get one loot. If you are unlucky you will need 4 weeks raiding for an accessory, when the game litteraly now give you the same item for DOING NOTHING)
But naaaaah that's not enough! These filthy ellitist high geared players should not have the right to need items suited for their class.

Stop trying to change a whole system perfectly fair just because YOU don't want to play the game how it is intended to.

And furthermore, I've yet to see someone refusing passing on a item if ask nicely. So the only thing I see here is a SPOILED LITTLE BRAT, who refuse to communicate and yet expects all other players to be punished for simply playing the game before him.
All this maths ans stats won't hide the fact that OP just sounds like a selfish person that just want everything handled down to him just because he don't want to communicate and can't accept the fact that he is not entitled to anything.
That kind of attitude should be awarded with a nice reality slap between the eyes.
You are not the victim here. The whole system is fine and fair. You want that class specific item? You play as that class or you ask politely. All your bragging won't change anything and furthermore, I will gladely roll need on everything I can if I happen to run a duty with you, OP. And I hope many players which tried to point your nonsense will do the same.

[Fyce]

The Guinness World Records are telling me that they are about to give a fourth record to FFXIV this year for "The highest number of forum pages someone has tried to backup their ridiculously absurd idea, while defying logic and common sense as much as possible".
That's something you don't see even on religious or political forums.

The downside is: I'm not sure we're going to have enough popcorn. I mean, after 31 pages of nonsense, we're already getting pretty low.

[Serilda]

If I go to help with a dungeon I'm overlevelled for on a role that I don't really enjoy but is needed to fill parties, I'm reducing the queue time for the other members due to the entire way the game's design works.

To keep the distracting and very silly maths simple, if I want a specific drop of a specific item, and it drops, here are the chances I have of getting it:

Everyone can and does roll Need: 25% chance
Only I can roll Need: 100% chance

If I undersize it or exclusively play with my friends, I get that 100% chance either way. It's also quicker and easier, and comes with a better social environment than being in a group with three people afraid to talk or express wishes for some reason that has yet to be explained in this thread. Ask me which I would do if they made all Need rolls irrelevant to your played role.

Enjoy your queues.

[Alleo]

Normally I love discussions with people but maybe it would be better to just ignore her? I mean I read through the argument and I just cant understand how this system would benefit anyone..yet even though many people already posted counter arguments, its still a never ending story. Better to just not answer I think?

[ErryK]

stahp