Does it get any better?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I've been in Dungeons before as the Tank and didn't feel like doing big pulls for one reason or another but that never stops the random Bard or Scholar from running ahead and pulling the next mob pack to me. It's frustrating.

This happened to me in Darkhold. I generally do small pulls after the first boss. Way too many experiences with people falling off the ledge or getting punted back by the toad. The Scholar didn't appreciate that and kept pulling extra mobs which nearly wiped us since I hadn't noticed at first. In response, when we got to the room with the skeleton, I grabbed everything. Despite blowing all my cooldowns-- even Holmgang-- she couldn't heal me through it and we died. She stopped for me after that.

[Stanazolol]

Unless it's Castrum or Praetorium, where you can basically do just whatever doesn't matter.

[CrispyCrab]

IMO there's just kinda "Norm" here that Tank is the only one to pull without any communication
So your doing is opposing that norm whether you know it or not but you already opposed it
Then people will think "You're the bully" and no one want to play with bullies
So the others decide to booted 1 bully for 3 people's sake

What I want to tell you is people here aren't that sensitive but we kinda strictly running with that norm
And when it's norm, You then need to know it to join the social(Novice Channel can tell you some)
When everybody go with the norm there's no need for communication (for introverted as me, I don't want to speak much just wanna play the game)
If you wanna do something different from the norm please tell before you've done (that's the norm here too)

With respect

[Anyan]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but when you as a dps pull, the tank doesn't just have to grab aggro from you but they also have to position them in a good way (which would have been easier for them had you not done that) which makes it even more annoying. Not only for the tank (and the healer) but also for the other dps who might be someone who needs certain positions for their job, such as drg, mnk or nin. You're making it harder on everyone. Heck, even summoners like me likes the mobs to stay grouped around the tank for our aoe. You should focus more on your aoe as well.

I was also surprised reading that you used to play WoW. When I entered my first dungeon in this game I greeted everyone and told them I was new, and then I didn't move an inch until the tank did. I stayed a few steps behind them and never attacked anything until they already had. Why? Because this was drilled into me on the very first few days I started playing WoW.

This game has a kinder and more caring playerbase than I'm used to, and that's something I hope you'll learn to appreciate. It might seem bad on this forum but that's because you brought up a subject that seems clearcut to most here. When it comes to speed, don't worry, the speedruns comes at a higher level.

[Kosmos992k]

A thought that comes to mind is this.

The truism that a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link can be applied here in terms of speed. A dungeon can only be run as fast as the slowest player in the group. If a tank happens not to like large pulls, or is not comfortable with them, no amount of DD running up and face-pulling mobs will help the run time. If anything all that does is slow things down even further since the Tank now has to regain hate, re-position everything and then settle back into the normal tank role.

It's quicker to optimize the run with the players you have than try to force them to conform to your demands.

[EusisLandale]

Not sure if it's been brought up yet, didn't see it, but one thing worth considering is that having multiple 60s means nothing at all. Thanks to Palace of the Dead getting things to that point is incredibly simple but you're not really taught much about proper functions to your job, especially in regards to tanking, healing, and any positional dps. You may very well find yourself running into people that are using leveling roulettes to get a grasp on those points after the fact.

[TouchandFeel]

A thought that comes to mind is this.

The truism that a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link can be applied here in terms of speed. A dungeon can only be run as fast as the slowest player in the group. If a tank happens not to like large pulls, or is not comfortable with them, no amount of DD running up and face-pulling mobs will help the run time. If anything all that does is slow things down even further since the Tank now has to regain hate, re-position everything and then settle back into the normal tank role.

It's quicker to optimize the run with the players you have than try to force them to conform to your demands.

Precisely, any decent tank will pace a run to go as fast as the party as a whole can go. If any member of the party is less geared, not familiar with content, etc., then the tank will take that into account and adjust down. The capabilities of the group is determined by it's whole, not a singular individual.

Not sure if it's been brought up yet, didn't see it, but one thing worth considering is that having multiple 60s means nothing at all. Thanks to Palace of the Dead getting things to that point is incredibly simple but you're not really taught much about proper functions to your job, especially in regards to tanking, healing, and any positional dps. You may very well find yourself running into people that are using leveling roulettes to get a grasp on those points after the fact.

This is so frighteningly true. The really scary part is when you run into players in PotD that fail at even being competent enough for that content.

[EusisLandale]

This is so frighteningly true. The really scary part is when you run into players in PotD that fail at even being competent enough for that content.

I've been kind of fortunate in that regard for the most part. Found a few Black Mages here and there that were sticking to Umbral Ice far more than necessary, but most were willing to fix things up a bit having it pointed out that "Fire III, Fire to low, Blizzard III, Thunder, repeat. Firestarter and Thundercloud Thunder III when able." would be more efficient. Probably not the best, yet mostly functional especially with keeping up Enochian being more work than it's worth on 9 of 10 floors a set, but I'm mainly a tank so that's outside my expertise.
Probably ran into plenty of other jobs making major mistakes but, again, outside my expertise. That's just the one case where the buff staying up forever makes it plainly clear to try to help them out.

[TouchandFeel]

I've been kind of fortunate in that regard for the most part. Found a few Black Mages here and there that were sticking to Umbral Ice far more than necessary, but most were willing to fix things up a bit having it pointed out that "Fire III, Fire to low, Blizzard III, Thunder, repeat. Firestarter and Thundercloud Thunder III when able." would be more efficient. Probably not the best, yet mostly functional especially with keeping up Enochian being more work than it's worth on 9 of 10 floors a set, but I'm mainly a tank so that's outside my expertise.
Probably ran into plenty of other jobs making major mistakes but, again, outside my expertise. That's just the one case where the buff staying up forever makes it plainly clear to try to help them out.

If that's the worst you've dealt with consider yourself lucky. I've run into some gems: cleric stance AST's that don't bother healing me as the tank ever forcing me to rely on potions and souleater combo spam to not die while I sit at maybe 15-20% health the whole time and slowing down everything because with that low health I can only make small pulls, melee DPS that position themselves in front of the mobs while doing their combos, single targetting BLM's. Stuff like that.

[EusisLandale]

If that's the worst you've dealt with consider yourself lucky. I've run into some gems: cleric stance AST's that don't bother healing me as the tank ever forcing me to rely on potions and souleater combo spam to not die while I sit at maybe 15-20% health the whole time and slowing down everything because with that low health I can only make small pulls, melee DPS that position themselves in front of the mobs while doing their combos, single targetting BLM's. Stuff like that.

That sort of stuff only ever bugs me outside of PotD, inside I keep pulls small but fast and steady anyway. Big pulls in there are just begging for a trap to ruin your day. Running into that stuff outside of PoTD quickly turns me from the sort of tank that pulls until a wall is in the way to the sort that takes it one pack at a time and sits in Grit eternally.