Does it get any better?

[Marou]

Thanks for a constructive post.
What I will do now: Ask at beginning if we can pull fast/not care about aggro so much.
What I learned: I feel that one poster's comment about the 90/10 assertion holds true based on these 8 pages. 10% gave constructive criticism REGARDLESS of whether they disagreed with me or not.

Just based on this thread I generalize two groups: 1. People who weren't personally offended and offered good advice, whether they agreed/disagreed with me or not.
2. Those who were personally offended by use of 'kids', or perhaps they were wiped by their dps in a similar fashion and I'm bringing up a similar topic, so I'm the subject of their anger projection =).

When I tank a dungeon I'd let you die if you were pulling stuff. Generally I'll start out with a moderate pull to gauge the healer and whether the DPS are performing adequately. After that my pulls are based on the following --

Memory: if I remember a certain mob does fatal moves (final sting, big aoe damage), I'll do a smaller pull when those mob(s) are involved to ensure things go smoothly and mark the problematic mob(s) for quick death.
DPS AoE & Healer DPS: If the DPS AoE isn't great but the healer is DPS'ing I'll limit my pulls to 1-2 packs of guys. It goes faster if the healer is adding their DPS while DPS is underperforming. They can't do that if they are under a bunch of pressure to keep me alive.
If DPS AoE is fantastic and the healer is not letting me almost die every pull I'll pull as much as I can handle without dying (2+ packs of guys, depending on what mitigation cooldowns are up). The healer won't have time to DPS much, but it shouldn't matter.

Taking that that into consideration, a DPS pulling things I didn't intend to be pulled is only going to mess up the dungeon run, make it less efficient, and potentially get everyone killed. Some of the leveling dungeons have guys that hit like trucks, it's generally only level 50 and 60 dungeons where I can get away with pulling 10+ mobs and live.

[Freerider]

I mean if I'm tank and someone who isn't a tank does the pull I just let them die then take aggro back problem solved. XD

[Pintsized]

I just perma constant pull cause I want to speed up the run

Speedruns are the scourge of all MMOs and having multiple 60s doesn't invalidate those players' loathing for them .. oh, and 'sprouts' are optional and can be set/unset as desired so its presence or absence doesn't indicate anything.

[Atreyu]

You might be running with people who don't tank or heal often and might be trying to get a better hang of it and thus are slower to pull. Just because someone isn't a sprout doesn't mean that they are an expert at their currently equipped job.

Also I was raiding in Legion up until this last month and I have been playing that game for a long time until I shelved it. I might not have experience in swtor, but I can tell you straight away that people do not take kindly to pulling if you're not the tank on WoW, either. Reactions have been similar on every MMO I've been on. It's considered rude at least, if not harassment.

[Squigley]

First of all, what did they do to my Aion?! When I was playing it waaaay back, most leveling groups had a really good chance of wiping if pulling extra mobs. As in CC was necessary and you wanted to DPS those screamer adds ASAP. And now sorcs can and are tanking? Sad

Secondly, it might be a good idea to get more understanding on how team dynamics and other jobs work in this game before trying to dictate the group actions in dungeons. As in, if I'm playing my monk, I want to punch the chain-pullers instead of the mobs. Having about 0 TP means doing about 0 DPS. Healer DPS was already mentioned but I'll mention it again, it can be a huge difference.

Thirdly, yeah, the lack of communication kinda sucks. However, this game is so dungeon focused that people probably just go on auto-pilot and assume everyone knows how things are done because everyone has probably done the dungeon countless times already.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

Yes some games do work with chain pulling, but that is more so when you are at a camp with someone bringing mobs back to the party. The reason this works is there is no goal or objective it really doesn't matter.

When doing this in 14 the objective is to get to the end of the dungeon, you are pulling mobs backwards when the party still needs to move forwards. That's why it is far easier to take the whole party to the mobs with the tank grabbing as many as he thinks the party is capable of killing. Once the tank hits that number they stop and everyone burns them down.

Also chain pulling is only good for holding 1- 2 mobs and then bringing an extra when 1 dies etc. This actually hurts the dps output too, as most jobs can pump out more dps when spamming aoes on large packs.

Yes I am familiar with the system we did this format in FFXI, but even then that was changed when people realised it was far better to roam and kill.

[KenshinHimura]

The OP is the problem with the community, even though he got kicked everytime he plays wrong he still doesn't learn but actually complains.Those kicks should be a lesson for you.

[bswpayton]

Just tank and you can pull every dungeon 15 and up with big mobs and finish in 20 mins , do you have something against tanks.

[Xlantaa]

If you're a DPS,then you must wait for tank to pull. it is the tank the one who established dungeons pace and also the first in pull. Most tanks in the game won't tolerate a DPS pulling first. I played WoW and SWOT and only in few dungeons in SWTOR I saw DPS pulling, but most of the time, are the Tanks. Also, normally on levelling, is not common pulling continuously. Speed runs are usually in endgame and not all people likes it. If you as DPS wants to make big pulls, usually is nice ask the tank instead of run ahead.

I tell you, as tank, I don't like DPS or healers pulling.

[BorisDaBlade]

In leveling dungeons, you will have a lot of players undergeared, or just not quite up to the challenge. And it's been said in this thread, the HW mobs hit a bit harder than anything 50 and below.

So even if you wanted to make the run go faster, you'll just end up slowing the run down because now the healer has to focus heal 2 targets instead of just the tank, taking away their ability to dps.

It's about 4-5 seconds between packs of mobs with about 4 packs per boss, that's about 1 minute of running if a tank only does one pack at a time, a wipe will add that 1 minute just running back from the start.

It's also been said that blm will rip hate from a tank very easily. Being a great BLM isn't just the ability to melt mobs. It's the ability to melt mobs and keep the aggro indicators at orange.