Does it get any better?

[jameseoakes]

I of course agree the responsibility lies in the tank, in any mmo. That goes without question. However, in all of those games once you got to end game, did you (or anyone else here) not once develop the mindset of "Ok we don't need to be playing this safe, let's speed this up" and then change your play style accordingly?

Your not at end game, I rarely pull extra mobs in synced dungeons as they can hit hard, your attitude is pretty disrespectful to the tank and healer.

[Medicine]

I of course agree the responsibility lies in the tank, in any mmo. That goes without question. However, in all of those games once you got to end game, did you (or anyone else here) not once develop the mindset of "Ok we don't need to be playing this safe, let's speed this up" and then change your play style accordingly?

Thing is though, this is a different game it plays differently and you can't just go pulling as a DPS thinking it's going to work out when a single enemy in most dungeons can kill you very quickly, besides this isn't WoW were you have millions of HP as a dps to rely on and monsters don't hit nearly as hard.

[Stitches1974]

I think OP is having a problem because in WoW and other games people kinda steamroll leveling dungeons so he wouldn't get kicked necessarily. In FFXIV the level sync makes it a bit harder to do so most people will avoid doing so outside of the level cap dungeons.

In WoW, as a tank, if dps pulled, they tanked it until they killed it or died. Keep doing it and you'd get booted in a heartbeat.

[Jim_Berry]

In WoW, as a tank, if dps pulled, they tanked it until they killed it or died. Keep doing it and you'd get booted in a heartbeat.

As a tank main in FFXIV, I live by this rule. At first, I didn't, but now, YOU will tank if you pulled.

Now, if the healer starts healing you and the healer takes aggro, I will protect the healer and ask the healer not to heal you. If the healer continue to heal you, I will go Sword Oath or drop Grit and let you tank/pull. In worse case scenario, I may get booted, but my queue times isn't as long as yours, so not only did I gain some gil, items, and xp from our dungeon, I'm gaining more from the next dungeon, and dungeon after that while you're still queueing for your second dungeon.

I WILL say this, though:
If you want fast runs, PLEASE ask the tank and healer if they can do it. You ask the tank because he knows what he can and can't handle, and the heal may not be the dps type of healer.

[Evergrey]

As a tank main in FFXIV, I live by this rule. At first, I didn't, but now, YOU will tank if you pulled.

I too live by the "You Pull it you Tank it" rule.
If I see someone constantly pulling I first give them a warning or two, if it continues I simply ignore everything that said player got on him until he's dead.

[Kosmos992k]

I think OP is having a problem because in WoW and other games people kinda steamroll leveling dungeons so he wouldn't get kicked necessarily. In FFXIV the level sync makes it a bit harder to do so most people will avoid doing so outside of the level cap dungeons.

Steamrolling content ensures it's swift demise. This speed run farm/grind mentality is a problem as far as I am concerned. Granted the dungeons in this game are pretty highly scripted, which creates problems as well since you can almost run them on auto pilot once you know them.

Before I continue though, I want to echo the comments of everyone who is saying that if you pull as a DD, you're going to tick off the tank and possibly the healer too. Dungeons are so much smoother when everyone just takes care of their role. You spank it, you tank it, was a phrase that was regularly use here in the past, I believe it may apply here.

But, looking at dungeons and other content in this game, it's farmed and ground into dust because it's the same every time, I bet some players could walk through blindfolded. In an ideal world (IMHO) dungeons would be similar experiences from run to run, but NOT the same. They need to be large enough to support multiple routes, additional random spawns, respawns that matter and wandering mini-bosses. This would mean that you can't simply auto-pilot through while Netflixing in the background. They'd also be impossible to overgear unless you run unsync'd. In that ideal world, the rewards would be worth the effort, rather than demanding multiple runs to get a decent chance of a drop, drop rates would need to be higher.

That's actually one of the more annoying elements of all MMORPGs. The developers seem to think that to stretch content life they have to a) force us (incentivize) to run old content with important or useful drops, and b) keep the drop rates low so that many runs are needed to acquire what players want/need preventing players from exhausting the usefulness of the content too quickly.

Then, to prevent player fatigue and annoyance, developers seem to use this criteria; dungeons need to be quick, and simple, so no complex maps, no puzzles, no multiple paths and heaven forbid respawning trash or wandering mini-bosses, and above all easily over geared whether sync'd or not.

The result is what we have, people running the same content hundreds of times (so I have seen claimed many times here) to farm tokens or drops or some other resource that is available only from older content that the Devs want players to keep running. Players burn out and get jaded quickly with that kind of routine play.

I'd like to see dungeons with some duration, not just a short gauntlet of trash to each Boss. SE, you might as well go back to FFXIII and their 'kill tubes' if that is how the dungeons are going to continue to be designed. Dungeons with branching paths and multiple routes, set encounters, random encounters, respawns, and wandering mini bosses; along with a few puzzle aspects to add some lateral thinking and fun. Qarn is a decent example of this because there are puzzles that you can complete to obtain additional drops. More of that, more 'fun' in dungeons and less grind please.

But, if you start down that road SE, consider those players who currently grind content for one reason or another. For every hour that they can grind in the game they can obtain a certain amount of reward. Dungeons need to be balanced in terms of their rewards such that those players are still adequately rewarded for their time running content, so drop frequency and drop chance need to be increased and balanced accordingly.

Maybe I am asking for something that is impossible, maybe not. All I know is that every player I personally know, who has heavily farmed content has burned out.

As a healer, here's my train of thought when DPS pull ahead of tank

1) Mistakes happen, got a little antsy. Forgivable
2) Hmm, your pushing it. I'm not angry yet but you better cool your jets
3) I'm pissed with you and will let you know I'm pissed
4) I WILL let you die, wipe or no.
5) Vote kick commenced

Lol yep that about sums up my order too.

Most tanks will get pretty well ticked in the same order, though some frequent flyers in Duty Finder may skip step 1 all together.

[Shurrikhan]

Pretty sure in WoW people kick for pulling mobs/bosses as DPS.

Meh, I track party cooldowns and have Misdirect (Shadewalker for DPS-Bards). Even without threat transfers I've never been kicked for it.

Just know that battle-rezes are a precious commodity (loooong CD) there; they won't waste it on you, especially if you did it "wrong". No etiquette enforcement required.

[Derio]

You would be better off to ask for large pulls at the beginning. When you do pulls as a DD you are hurting the entire party, not helping. When you pull adds the tank has to react to the adds who are going to attack the healer who in turn has to heal themselves, the tank, and you from your pull.

Some use this as harassment, because in a small way it is, especially if they tell you to stop and you keep doing it.

If you tried tanking or healing in the game for a dungeon or two and saw a DD doing what you are doing then perhaps you would understand the effect of your actions.

[RaijinSupreme]

if you want to pull, play a tank.

[Vidu]

Speedrunning is more a thing in later dungeons, yes.

BUT - take a look at your own attitude here, please... if you pull as a dps because the run isnt going your way, you deserve a kick anytime. Play a tank if you want to dictate the pace of a dungeon, please. And dont come here whining because people dont play the way you want them to play - because thats what you're doing here.
You're not being stupid btw, just a jerk - if you want to speedrun leveling dungeons look for people you can do that with...

Ever tired communicating with your teammates instead of just ignoring that they're there and playing the game your way? Because thats excatly what you're doing when you pull instead of letting the tank handle that.
I've never played an MMO beside this one, so I cant tell if its any different - but here is what you should take away from this: Dont pull as dps in ff14, easy as that.