Warrior Suggestion

[Ilan]

Nah it won't be OP if you heal yourself by 25% on every hit that you do since WAR don't deal any dmg at all.

That is sarcasm if there are people out there who aren't able to understand that.

[bounddreamer]

Nah it won't be OP if you heal yourself by 25% on every hit that you do since WAR don't deal any dmg at all.

LOL

Thanks for the laugh

[shao32]

- Buff defiance to increase max health by 35%, heal you for 25% of damage you deal, and remove Bloodbath.
- Change Storm's Path to apply a shield for 150% of the damage dealt instead of a heal for 50% of the damage dealt and remove the damage reduction aspect.

the problem whit this 2 are how scaling with damage, the defiance buff heal you for 25% + innerbeast 300% heals can be pretty much more with bersek, i mean its become a 325% self heal around the damage you dealt with inner beast?

and the shield/selfheal need to be tie on defiance or those 150% shields on deliverance can be more powerfull that sentinel or by exception they dont stack with healers one, all this changes with the actual state of bersek can make WAR stay in they OP status this expansion, i dont want to imagine a 150% shield in deliverance with bersek.

in any case i put all self heals and shields effect behind defiance and bersek dont scale with ap anymore to have it undercontrol, meaby reduce the effects of someones to make unchained more usefull and act like a virtual cd bcs you can use those shields every 2 gdc.

[Shurrikhan]

The problem is that you have two ends to tank value: personal scaling and reactive scaling. The first outperforms the second in outgeared content, and underperforms in progressive content.

In other words, the portion of your own stats, as dealt through vampirics like Life Surge, Bloodbath, Soul Eater, and Inner Beast will eventually outdo the portion of enemy stats reduced by percentile mitigation tools, at which point the only advantage to mitigation tools is, typically, better window control and one-shot resistance. And until then, the other will outdo it.

By "theming" a toolkit on purely one or the other, as ARR originally did with WAR and PLD, you niche the content to which they can be taken, e.g. progressive content and past content.

Making Warrior more dependent on its self-healing would be fine if and only if the resource that feeds that self-healing also depends on input (on enemies) such that the job is generally about as input-dependent as the others, with duly roughly equal output.

[Thatusernameistaken]

Making Warrior more dependent on its self-healing would be fine if and only if the resource that feeds that self-healing also depends on input (on enemies) such that the job is generally about as input-dependent as the others, with duly roughly equal output.

In ARR, WAR had a much higher skill ceiling (I'm assuming that's what you mean by "input") in order to be as effective as Paladin, which I was completely fine with because while it took more skill to perform the same, a top tier Warrior was able to bring FAR more to the table that a top tier Paladin in content that didn't absolutely require a Paladin in the first place. I wish to God they would bring back the ARR feel of Warrior without breaking the game or making it obsolete in certain fights. And let's not forget that even today Warrior is obsolete in certain niche fights (Zurvan Ex 1-tank strat for example). So even the current design has its viability flaws.

[Ultimatecalibur]

And let's not forget that even today Warrior is obsolete in certain niche fights (Zurvan Ex 1-tank strat for example). So even the current design has its viability flaws.

That is because Zurvan EX is badly designed fight not because Warrior has viability flaws. The only reason Paladin and Dark Knight can cheese Demon's Claw+Wave Cannon and Warrior can not is because Hallowed Ground and Living Dead are 10s and Holmgang is 6s and 10s is long enough to cover both Demon Claw and Wave Cannon. If the gap between Demon Claw and Wave Cannon was a few seconds longer none of the tanks would be able to cheese the mechanic.

[TouchandFeel]

In ARR, WAR had a much higher skill ceiling (I'm assuming that's what you mean by "input") in order to be as effective as Paladin, which I was completely fine with because while it took more skill to perform the same, a top tier Warrior was able to bring FAR more to the table that a top tier Paladin in content that didn't absolutely require a Paladin in the first place. I wish to God they would bring back the ARR feel of Warrior without breaking the game or making it obsolete in certain fights. And let's not forget that even today Warrior is obsolete in certain niche fights (Zurvan Ex 1-tank strat for example). So even the current design has its viability flaws.

I'm pretty sure what they meant by "input", since they designated "enemies", was the damage taken by the WAR as opposed to damage dealt by the WAR.

[Shurrikhan]

In ARR, WAR had a much higher skill ceiling (I'm assuming that's what you mean by "input") in order to be as effective as Paladin, which I was completely fine with because while it took more skill to perform the same, a top tier Warrior was able to bring FAR more to the table that a top tier Paladin in content that didn't absolutely require a Paladin in the first place. I wish to God they would bring back the ARR feel of Warrior without breaking the game or making it obsolete in certain fights. And let's not forget that even today Warrior is obsolete in certain niche fights (Zurvan Ex 1-tank strat for example). So even the current design has its viability flaws.

I tanked First Coil and most of my roulettes as Warrior in 2.0 (including many a 3-dps, Warrior-is-its-own-heals-damnit AK run). I'm aware of the differences. But no, that is not what I mean by "input", nor do I see how the skill ceiling was any higher in 2.0 than post-buff, even if I did prefer elements of the 2.0 gameplay.

What I mean by "input" is the values received that could, depending on toolkit, have an effect on output, such as one's stats, one's healing taken, one's mitigation dealt, and one's damage taken. Essentially, everything but "output". In this case though I'm specifically weighing external input (mob stats) vs. internal input (stats). [If you wish to look at it simply, input is environment-based, and output is self-and-party-based, as heals are necessary to the equation of Warrior's strengths.] If the tank does not scale well with external input (e.g. percentile of damage taken), then it can only be truly balanced for a thin transcient moment. Until that point, he is inferior in progression (or hard-hitting fights in general) because the tanks better benefiting from external input (those with more percentile mitigation, as opposed to the Warrior's flatter or personally-based self-healing) will have higher overall output; after that point, he will be overpowered in that his benefiting more greatly from his own gear, which exceeds the strength of the mobs being tanked, will outperform the benefits of greater use of the damage dealt by enemy mobs (who are now becoming obsolete).

Again, you can make it more reactive and less preparative, as it was in 2.0. You can also make it face more compromise and decisions therefrom, as it did in 2.0. But you probably won't be able to bring back the no-heals-required aspect, and you certainly can't afford to leave it as imbalanced over time as it was in 2.0.

[Moogly]

Reading from you guys now I'm starting to understand why once I met a healer in DF that didnt want to heal our tank. He was saying that the tank could sustain himself only with self heals like bloodbath... Sadly he was kicked because at that moment that wasn't the case at all, but now I understand...
Was WAR so good at self healing back then that you didnt need a healer at all in lvling dungeons ?

[MrSmiley]

Reading from you guys now I'm starting to understand why once I met a healer in DF that didnt want to heal our tank. He was saying that the tank could sustain himself only with self heals like bloodbath... Sadly he was kicked because at that moment that wasn't the case at all, but now I understand...
Was WAR so good at self healing back then that you didnt need a healer at all in lvling dungeons ?

Sometimes yes, not an entire dungeon though as cd's don't always line up. Some bosses I solo'd after party wiped to mechanics. high damage bosses not so much but still XD