If a tank loses aggro, whose fault is it?

[DJaySaint]

Is it the Tank's fault for not utilizing their kit properly and rotating their enmity combo across mobs in an AoE situation, or the DPS's fault for not "managing their aggro"? In some scenarios it is the DPS' fault, but I will get to that in a moment.

Right, little back story behind the question (kinda long sorry lol, so you've been warned!)

I was in The Vault because of Duty Roulette: Leveling. I was playing Black Mage. I had a Paladin tank, and the other DPS was a Black Mage as well who apparently was duo with the Paladin (they were a couple). I don't remember what the healer was because he was inconsequential and pretty much did nothing all dungeon. He didn't really heal (well, anyone but tank anyway) or DPS. He was just pretty much there.

Anyway, so Paladin pulls mobs and I do what any Black Mage does... I flare all the things. That dungeon is of course pretty much all clustered trash pulls. Usually between 3-6 mobs. Every single pull though, I was pulling aggro of almost all of the mobs. Flare 1 generally wouldn't, but Flare 2 always did. If I double or triple Flared... I was pretty much tanking. And then I died because healer wasn't healing. The Paladin was marking mobs in order though, but not sure why because we had 2 Black Mages and we are doing AoE damage. But he was less than stellar at holding aggro.

When we get to boss 1, I just asked them to hold on a moment because I had to put Quelling Strikes back on my bar. Boss 1 got pulled, I used Quelling Strikes on every cooldown, and was still pulling aggro with single target rotation. Ok then...

So back to trash pulling, and I eventually ask the Paladin to use Flash and Circle of Scorn more and rotate his combo across the mobs so that he does not lose aggro on EVERY pull. To which he replies "you need to manage your aggro better." I told him that maintaining aggro is his role as the tank, not mine as a DPS. In some situations, YES it is my job to watch aggro but those are edge case and don't happen very often. For the majority of the time, it is up to the tank to maintain aggro. That is why they are the TANK. They have the tools for it, so it is their job to use them.

Anyway, so tank is getting primadonna on me and refuses to even try to get aggro back from any mobs that I pull off of him using standard AoE rotation because it isn't his job apparently. It's MY job to make sure I don't do enough damage to pull aggro. So I'm getting annoyed at this point. Back and forth ensues, then he asks how many times his waifu pulled aggro, to which I replied "none, because I'm doing more DPS than she is" and he gets upset and goes "no, she isn't pulling aggro because she knows how to play her class and clearly you don't." At this point, I'm just dumbfounded. I told him that there is no way to "manage aggro" on a DPS other than to do less DPS, because aggro from a DPS is based solely on... DPS. If my aggro bar is always over twice the other Black Mage's, it's pretty safe to say I'm just doing more DPS. But he says there is "no way you can be doing more DPS than her because she knows how to play Black Mage."

So then he berates me, tells me I don't know how to play my class and his waifu knows what she is doing so if she isn't pulling aggro she is doing better DPS than me. Then he tells me until I learn how to play my class, don't tell him about his. I'm using Quelling Strikes this entire time mind you, so if he really wants me to "manage my aggro" then I have to literally stand there doing nothing... which he will probably complain about then.

Finally I gave up and said "fine I'll manage my aggro." Boss #2 starts. I no longer use Enochian, Raging Strikes, or Ley Lines. Literally the only thing I use is Quelling Strikes, Blizzard III, Thunder, and any Thundercloud procs for Thunder III. I'm fighting the tank for aggro and his waifu is nowhere near my aggro level. I don't even know what she is doing but I see her using Ley Lines and in Astral Fire. I guess she's just casting Fire once a minute? Totally knows what she is doing... I unfortunately die at the end of the boss fight because I got knocked back in to 3 orbs. Entire outer arena was covered in orbs at this point so there was no safe space to really stand with his knockback. But whatever.

So after the boss fight, they roll for loot unusually quick which means I'm going to get vote kicked. And I did. So I was kicked from the group for doing too much DPS, and asking the tank to utilize more of his kit to maintain aggro on group pulls. I ended up reporting them to a GM. I was not mean. I was not name calling. He was just being a douchebag.

Anyway, after the long story... whose fault is it really in situations like that? I've had friends tell me to not even worry about using Quelling Strikes because a good tank should never lose aggro. In my experience tanking, if I am around same gear level as DPS it's not even close to an aggro struggle. I just can't fathom how some people out there absolutely cannot tank, and get mad at YOU when you pull aggro from them.

Personally when I tank, if someone pulls aggro I view it as it is ALWAYS my fault. DPS didn't focus mobs and attack in order? Fine, but it's still my fault for not making up for their lack of awareness. DPS pulls aggro from boss under normal circumstances? I need to try harder or get better gear.

The only time I won't pull aggro off of someone is if they run ahead to pull more mobs, and I've pulled all I think I can handle. If I know I can handle more, I will pull more. But if I am scared for my life every pull because the healer is bad, then I will only pull what I think I can survive through and if someone else pulls more then they tank what they pull.

I will NEVER just let someone sit there and die if they pull aggro from me though. I am the tank. It is my PRIMARY JOB to keep aggro and if I lose it, unless the DPS is going out of their way to be stupid on purpose, I'm working my ass off to get it back. I can't be the only person who thinks this way, right? I know it's only "loldutyfinder" but I've run in to SO many tanks who run around like they are divas and get bent out of shape if you expect them to actually tank... I just don't know anymore.

Anyway, thoughts?

[vigioX-Sun]

I'm not reading all that...
Tank is to be blame for losing the enemy attention no matter the situation.

[Brannigan]

TLDR
Skimmed it
If you're using quelling then it's on the tank. Don't get so upset over one dungeon run.

[Bixillarla]

Most definately the tank. Should be using flash and circle of scorn and rotating thier combo between mobs to hold them. I don't main tank but do tank when my partner is playing cause they main healer, I don't usually have a problem holding agro in the situation that you described.

[SAMZ]

Im not reading all that also.
Im going to look at when its not a tanks fault.
If you lose aggro to a ot war using bb then wars fault or any ot spamming aggro combo, also ots in tank stance. Any dps that doesn't use aggro dump is at fault. And any over healings or medica spam for no reason resulting in losing aggro. Whm sacred soil....

Every thing else is MTs fault pretty much

[Bourne_Endeavor]

First and foremost, smack that friend of yours for telling you not to use Quelling. Black Mage pulls absurd amounts of aggro, especially on the onset of a pull. You will be riding extremely close to even decently geared tanks-- if not pulling aggro entirely-- without Quelling. With that aside, it sounds as though you had a Paladin who doesn't quite realize you can't just spam Flash a couple time and hold threat the entire time. I partly wonder if they are coming off Warrior or Dark Knight where multi-pull threat management is significantly easier due to Overpower and Unleash/Abyssal Drain dealing damage in addition to aggro generation. Regardless, this is a tank issue. If you are using Quelling and still pulling hate, they either aren't generating enough threat or you simply out gear them enough they literally can't hold it. Was this Paladin in Ironworks by chance? If so and you were in more appropriate gear, you're the tank no matter what they do. And that's still their fault for queuing into a dungeon with gear significantly below level.

What stands out to me is how you held higher aggro over the second Black Mage despite utterly gimping yourself. Seems like this couple are equally bad players and came across someone who actually knows how to Black Mage. Rather then acknowledge maybe his girlfriend needed to rethink her rotation, he blamed you to make her feel better.

[Leanna]

The tank \ o /

Tough is fun to steal the aggro from a boss with both MNK and DPSing as SCH lol

But I must side with the tanks when it comes to big pulls, and some DD's just focus random mobs to piss off the tank.

[bounddreamer]

It was the tank's fault 100%. It's the tank's job to hold aggro. The dps sometimes have tools to help, but aggro is the tank responsibility first and foremost.

[Asuras]

When all else fails, just blame it on the one person you should never publicly name (whether in support or against)... the POTUS.

[Vexander]

Yeah that was the tank's fault, not yours. I can only imagine his waifu was spamming Fire one then clearing Astral Fire at three stacks or something.