[DEV Question] Why is this allowed?

[Reynhart]

Which is why I posted that example in my last post, which you didn't comment on for some reason, about Queueing as a tank for level 60 dungeons with full crafting gear and healing accessories on.

I didn't comment on that because I said, pages ago, that gear should be more rescrited towards job that can wear it.

but in the end you are just ignoring the fact that the reason for this thread is the fact that he could actually queue with that weapon (I checked on my BLM and equipping an i110 weapon only brought me down to i240), or he could switch to it inside the duty, and BOTH scenarios are a problem.

I wouldn't suggest changes if there wasn't a problem.

[B]Just because the game lets you queue doesn't mean there are no flaws with the DF system.

That's your opinion, mine is that there is a flaw in gear weighting.

[Miste]

I didn't comment on that because I said, pages ago, that gear should be more rescrited towards job that can wear it.

Restricting gear has a negative aspect with it since it removes certain glamour options for people; while simply fixing the DF so that it cannot be misused doesn't remove glamour options. So, sorry this isn't the better option over just fixing the DF instead.

That's your opinion, mine is that there is a flaw in gear weighting.

It's not really just an opinion after showing factual evidence that it is flawed. Are you really still denying it?

I can't believe you can look at that screenshot and not see it as a flaw. If someone did queue like that they would be unable to even complete the instance no matter what group they got. Yes it is unlikely that anyone would seriously do that, but the potential is still there, which makes the system definitely not perfect. Not perfect = it has flaws; which means there is room for improvement.

The example I put forth with the tank screenshot has nothing to do with gear weighting. Even if they altered the weight of the gear the DF system would still let me queue with that i150 gear. I was queuing for an i145 dungeon while almost all my gear slots were between i140-i150 (in case you don't understand what I mean it means ALL my gear was actually within acceptable proper item level for the content...it was just the wrong gear that had no tank stats on any of it).

So even if the ilevel weights changed I would still be able to queue like that due to the flaws in the DF system right now that it does not check that your main stat/weapon is proper. This is a flaw since people cannot do their job in the content and the game lets them queue and doesn't tell them it is improper when they do things like this BLM did or what my tank in the screenshot did. I just hopefully doubt someone would equip all that improper gear while weapon is just one piece so way more often I have seen people knowingly or unknowingly abuse the system using very improper ones.

While I agree with you that gear weighting can be seen as flawed as well (since the item level system weighs all pieces equally when they actually aren't), you cannot say the gear weighting is flawed without acknowledging the DF system is flawed as well in this particular case.

The flaw in the ilevel weights OR the DF system makes it so people can use very improper weapons and still queue but they cannot do their job in the content. While the DF alone also lets people queue with absolutely no gear on that increases their main job's stats which also makes it so people cannot do their job in the content.

Both are the same nature of flaw. So you supporting one while denying the other makes zero sense. Fixing the DF would fix both these issues listed while fixing the weights only fixes one of them. While the weapon issue is the main one because the other I have never seen someone do yet it still would be beneficial for SE to fix both.

I choose to fix the DF flaw over the weight flaw and I understand you choose to fix the weight flaw...but you deny the DF flaw even exists which really makes no sense at this point and is the main reason for my recent responses to you. You really need to look closely at what I have been saying to you.

Basically if we fix the weighting we can possibly fix the weapon issue this is true (I feel this method will cause more problems than it helps since it is directly connected to too many aspects of the game, so I still don't agree), but if we fix the DF, just adding a few more checks, not only do we fix the weapon problem but maybe SE will fix the other issue of the tank example I gave to end this improper gear problem altogether and we also won't lose any glamour over it since the game won't let people queue with crafting gear and improper accessories anymore even if they can wear it.

Your opinion to fix the weighting is fine, but if you don't understand by now what I mean about denying the DF system problems then I am done bothering. Sorry, but I am just going to end up repeating myself.

[Reynhart]

It's not really just an opinion after showing factual evidence that it is flawed. Are you really still denying it?

/sigh
No, I'm not denying. There is a flaw between ilvl requirement and the impact of the weapon.
To remove that flaw, you thing ilvl requirement should be changed to match the current impact of weapon, I think the impact of weapon should be changed to match the current calculation of ilvl requirement.

[Miste]

/sigh
No, I'm not denying. There is a flaw between ilvl requirement and the impact of the weapon.

/sigh

I never said you were denying the flaw in the ilevel requirement and impact of the weapon....you are reading before responding right?

flaws in the DF system

acknowledging the DF system is flawed

you deny the DF flaw even exists which really makes no sense at this point and is the main reason for my recent responses to you.

^I said you were denying the flaws in the DF system. All my recent responses have been about THAT; nothing about the weighting idea of yours

If the game decided that this BLM was able to enter, then it's not a problem that he's here in that state.

^Initial statement you made denying the problems with the DF system. All my recent responses to you goes back to this quote from you. You still haven't responded about why you think that is an okay mentality to have even with all the evidence I've given you on why it isn't okay.

My issue was you claiming "if the game lets you enter it's not a problem"

^Me telling you this is the issue I have with your post, not your weighting idea or anything to do with the ilevel weights at all actually.

Just because the game lets you queue doesn't mean there are no flaws with the DF system.

^Showed you, with a screenshot, the scenario I described proving the flaw in the DF system that would let a tank queue while in a state that is completely unable to tank the content at all.

So yeah please point out where I said you denied the ilevel and weapon impact because that isn't what I've been talking about this whole time <.<
I've been talking about you saying that special statement you made "if the game decided you can enter, then it's not a problem"

You got pouty because you didn't get the perfect party you wanted, Yes, you do deserve the penalty.

So....if you got a tank like this ^ in your DF party when you loaded into a dungeon.

Would you be upset?
Would you leave?
Would you vote kick?
Would you be mad they wasted your time?

Seriously curious. If you say Yes to ANY of those, you are a hypocrite.

[Clethoria]

So....if you got a tank like this ^ in your DF party when you loaded into a dungeon.

Would you be upset?
Would you leave?
Would you vote kick?
Would you be mad they wasted your time?

Seriously curious. If you say Yes to ANY of those, you are a hypocrite.

I dont look at other people's gear like that so I wouldn't know. In fact, the only time I ever use DF is if I can't get a full party with friends or I'm running PotD/PVP. I practice what I preach and will almost always have a personal, full augmented tank and or healer at my side.

[Zojha]

I dont look at other people's gear like that so I wouldn't know.

So...you wouldn't notice if a tank had less than a third of their usual HP and was dying in like 3 hits due to low armor?

That's "a tad" oblivious.

[Clethoria]

So...you wouldn't notice if a tank had less than a third of their usual HP and was dying in like 3 hits due to low armor?

That's "a tad" oblivious.

No, I dont have this problem at all. I ask to be catered to, and I receive because, as I've said, I almost always have a personal tank and or healer at hand. If I can get neither, Party Finder. Why should I have to deal with problems that can easily be avoided? Because I really don't think I should.

I don't deny I do, difference between me and you is I know what I'm talking about you clearly do not.
Oh so we don't just wanna get by and play the game? Only people who wanna cheese a system do that... Ofc that makes perfect sense... I do wonder though do you offer this advice to the players who do cheese the system or do you just blame th rest of us for being meanies? I'm guessing the latter.



Mhmm sure I'm the one who brought it up :P

Sure, call me passive aggressive and retaliate with full snark. I speak on experience and I've experienced enough to know that ragequitting doesn't have to be a thing if you take the strides to avoid it.

[Vidu]

I dont look at other people's gear like that so I wouldn't know. In fact, the only time I ever use DF is if I can't get a full party with friends or I'm running PotD/PVP. I practice what I preach and will almost always have a personal, full augmented tank and or healer at my side.

So... you're basically just closing your eyes and look the other way when it comes to problems like this? And when someone encounters such a tank/healer/dps its their fault for not having their pocket tank/healer/dps and just wanting to play and enjoy the game?
This is a great attitude, really...

I always like to ask myself the question: Would a person with gear/skill like that get past this dungeon/boss in a single-player game? If not, what would they do? Get better gear? Get better at the game? Quit the game? Ask a friend to do it for them? If anything, they would HAVE to do something because they couldnt progress and the game is telling them that - here, you've got up to 23 other people carrying your ass, why is that okay?
We NEED the game telling people that its not - even a fluffy little themepark needs some rules.

[Nestama]

I dont look at other people's gear like that so I wouldn't know. In fact, the only time I ever use DF is if I can't get a full party with friends or I'm running PotD/PVP. I practice what I preach and will almost always have a personal, full augmented tank and or healer at my side.

There would be red flags pointing to a potential bad run before you even look at the gear they're wearing. "Tanks HP is lower than a Level 50 tank. That's odd," would be your first thought if you looked at the party list. If you don't look at it, or have it hidden, then your only clue after that would be how fast the tank dies (or if someone else in the party notices and mentions it). If you still don't check their gear, then I don't know what to tell you (and if you defend the tank in crafting gear for 'playing how they want,' then you're being a part of the problem for enabling them).

[Ama_Hamada]

Would you be upset?
Would you leave?
Would you vote kick?
Would you be mad they wasted your time?

Seriously curious. If you say Yes to ANY of those, you are a hypocrite.

There is no way I be healing that, vote kick would take place right at the 5 min mark or id end up leaving. Also I believe I shouldn't HAVE TO WAIT 5 mins to kick something like that, maybe just make a better system for gear checking? Also I assume you rejected the queue or fixed gear on entry? lamo

Also Clethoria yes you are being passive-aggressive and being offensive to people (so far)

I dont look at other people's gear like that so I wouldn't know. In fact, the only time I ever use DF is if I can't get a full party with friends or I'm running PotD/PVP. I practice what I preach and will almost always have a personal, full augmented tank and or healer at my side.

You should notice that on the first pull without checking gear. Then again I am an aware person as a healer. Then again I guess it takes wiping a few times for you to.