[DEV Question] Why is this allowed?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

If someone sits at the beginning of the duty, will you go through it knowing that the person won't participate, get the clear and come here complaining ?

No, but it's far easier to notice someone actively sitting compared to them having a massively inferior weapon. Nonetheless, the post I quoted defending the person on the basis of "you cleared." Thus, my response.

Seeing Miste did an actual test on just how significant a DPS loss having a weapon that weak is. Why shouldn't she bring attention to an obvious loophole? It's no different than people being allowed to queue into 60 content on classes. Just because you can doesn't me it isn't a flaw in the system design.

[Reynhart]

Seeing Miste did an actual test on just how significant a DPS loss having a weapon that weak is. Why shouldn't she bring attention to an obvious loophole?

Bringing attention to a loophole is a thing. Stating a solution for that loophole is another. And frankly, I still think the problem here is that the weapon is too important. For example, we all know that accessories cost less tome than little pieces or armor, which in turn cost less that big pieces. It's because accessories give the least stat and big armors give the most.

But, with such a huge emphasis put on weapons, we could end in situation where upgrading several pieces of armor would give you less DPS than the weapon alone, even tough the weapon is clearly "cheaper".

[Miste]

Bringing attention to a loophole is a thing. Stating a solution for that loophole is another.

Well, to be fair, I never said any of my ideas were perfect solutions that had to be heeded and in my first post I asked what other people's thoughts are as well.

I mean general discussion forum means to discuss general things so my topic was not only to get Dev attention about this but also to discuss the issue and possibly come up with solution ideas.

I found a problem so I pointed out the problem, but getting a discussion going by bouncing solution ideas off of the community will also get more people posting their ideas as well so we can, you know, work together to find solutions that would be good and to do what the forum is there for. Discuss.

So yeah I am unsure about what your issue is with people stating solution ideas. It does no harm and really doesn't seem like a bad thing to discuss with the community in my opinion.

[Reynhart]

So yeah I am unsure about what your issue is with people stating solution ideas.

I have no issue with people "stating solution ideas". I just think that your solution to keep focusing on the importance of weapon (i.e forcing a higher ilvl for the weapon) is more problematic than homogenizing the value of all equipped items.

[Miste]

I have no issue with people "stating solution ideas". I just think that your solution to keep focusing on the importance of weapon (i.e forcing a higher ilvl for the weapon) is more problematic than homogenizing the value of all equipped items.

Well the equipment system in place now was the one SE originally created and implemented at 2.0 launch.

It is way more work for SE to overhaul the entire equipment system than to just add a few extra DF queue requirements to their code.

Your idea: Overhaul of entire item level and equipment system. Have to modify every piece of gear currently in the game. Have to adjust equipment obtainment methods due to homogenization. Have redo mathematical calculations for the gear stats and weights.

My idea: Add a few more DF requirements that the game checks before allowing people to queue. So just some coding; that's all.

Example: Add a DF check that specifically looks at the weapon slot and makes sure the weapon equipped is not massively inappropriate to the point where the player cannot do their role properly. If it is an appropriate level/ilevel then let them queue, if it isn't then issue a DF error message explaining why they cannot queue.

So I disagree. I feel your idea of homogenizing the value of all gear to be way more problematic and as a solution to this particular issue it is too much work for SE to easily implement. So a simpler idea would be more viable in my opinion.

Not to say that later in the game's life or at Stormblood they won't overhaul some of the equipment system, but for specifically this topic's issue your idea would be too much work for them to quickly implement to fix.

[Reynhart]

Your idea: Overhaul of entire item level and equipment system. Have to modify every piece of gear currently in the game. Have to adjust equipment obtainment methods due to homogenization. Have redo mathematical calculations for the gear stats and weights.

My idea : change the ratio between weapon damage and the main stat and...that's it.
Because, again, your idea doesn't change the fact that the weapon is way too important compared to other pieces of gear.

You realize that they changed main stat weight for tanks and that the world didn't crumble ?

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

My idea : change the ratio between weapon damage and the main stat and...that's it.
Because, again, your idea doesn't change the fact that the weapon is way too important compared to other pieces of gear.

That's kind of the point tho, its the WEAPON. I don't know any game that relies on damage output where the weapon is not important.

[Vaer]

You realize that they changed main stat weight for tanks and that the world didn't crumble ?

Now imagine if everyone took a damage hit because they messed with the damage formula, suddenly everything is harder to kill. They balanced the game around the weapon scaling being the way it is. This would actually affect quite a bit of the game since a weapon damage ratio change would nerf players. They would have to go into the rest of the gear slots and put the removed damage into the other slots just to keep parity.

It wouldn't break the game, but suddenly everyone is going to be doing less damage unless they put the removed power into other slots or bake it in. It would also devalue the weapons at the minimum which is the hardest slot to upgrade and used as a reward for harder content.

A lot of work when you can just put a check in place to make sure they aren't using a weapon from 2 years ago.

[Nestama]

My idea : change the ratio between weapon damage and the main stat and...that's it.
Because, again, your idea doesn't change the fact that the weapon is way too important compared to other pieces of gear.

You realize that they changed main stat weight for tanks and that the world didn't crumble ?

That's a pretty bad idea. The weapon is important because it's a weapon. Miste has the right idea of making it so that if your weapon level is below the contents level, then you should not be able to enter.
If you remove the importance of the weapon, then why bother doing the Anima questline?

[Miste]

You realize that they changed main stat weight for tanks and that the world didn't crumble ?

Yeah the world didn't crumble with the tank change but do you realize the tank change was extremely minor? It only dealt with 2 stats and one role type. Also tanks DID lose some DPS, but since tanks don't really need high DPS (yes the community likes it, but the game doesn't require it), it didn't really affect much of anything.

Your change deals with all main stats and all jobs.

Also your idea changes SE's original design for the equipment system while mine only adds a few extra firewall rules to entry requirements for DF.

So, sorry, I still disagree that my idea is problematic compared to yours.

Mine only deals with DF entry requirements and not changing the original equipment system like yours does.

PS. Another thing is the Relic quest lines will become obsolete if weapon is the same as every other piece of gear. They won't be worth getting anymore if the weapon is only as good as an accessory piece. All that work for a piece of equip that does the same as a 375 Scripture accessory? Nope.

SE purposely made average item level the determining factor for DF entry. But because you don't like it, it has to change.

At this point you are just stuck on the idea that people want it changed simply because they don't like it and you are not actually adding anything to the discussion.

I pointed it out because it has a flaw. Liking or disliking it has nothing to do with it at all.

It is flawed if a player can go into a duty unable to do their main role. The DF should disallow players from queuing for something they cannot actually do properly due to lack of proper gear. The system mostly works; the only problem is the weapon being worth a lot more than other pieces.

So adding some extra requirements to the DF to acknowledge this imbalance will assist players from making mistakes not realizing they cannot do their role. Also would stop players who do it to troll or to get others to carry them so they don't need to do any work themselves.

Main point: People shouldn't be allowed to queue with gear that would make it so the team they get must carry them in order to clear the content or gear that would make it so if the team they get cannot carry them they will be completely unable to clear the content.

If I equip a level 50 i110 weapon on my BLM and queue for level 60 content I will be doing 50% less DPS than I should be doing for that content...who is going to do the extra 50% I am missing so we can clear? I guess we better hope the group I get can otherwise we are all going to waste time wiping all because the DF didn't check my weapon before letting me queue.

Did you look at my post about failing the DPS Alex Creator Normal (avg i230) check in SSS with an i110 weapon even tho the rest of my gear was 7 i270 pieces, 2 i260 pieces, and 2 i250 pieces? The weapon made it so my damage was not appropriate for the content. So if I go queue for it wearing that i110 weapon I cannot do the DPS I am required to do for the content no matter how skilled I am at the job.

Yeah, someone else might be able to pick me up and backpack me to a clear, but this shouldn't be happening simply because of improper gear which the DF queue system can and should be checking. If I get people who are unable to carry my low DPS then I wasted everyone's time by wiping the group over and over.