[DEV Question] Why is this allowed?

[Underdog2204]

hmm probably around 3000-4000 damage on fire 4 is acceptable when the ilvl requirement asks for around 5000-6000... People are only defending this coz its a dps, if it was any other role it wouldn't be tolerated for a second.

Mhmm the babysitting is real in this thread.

[Zojha]

People are only defending this coz its a dps, if it was any other role it wouldn't be tolerated for a second.

You say that, but people are also defending healers only using a fraction of their toolkit because "muh role".

Tanks are probably the only ones getting screwed out of the deal here.

[Underdog2204]

You say that, but people are also defending healers only using a fraction of their toolkit because "muh role".

Tanks are probably the only ones getting screwed out of the deal here.

Thats true but the difference is the healer wouldn't even be healing like they should.

I have been in this exact situation on a gubal hard run with WHM using a ilvl 145 cane. Couldn't keep the tank up on basic pulls.... Too right we booted that one xD

[Mejingjard]

Tanks are probably the only ones getting screwed out of the deal here.

Only shitty tanks are screwed. Good tanks do not try to be the least usefull as possible.
Nah in fact, good players in general try to perform their role as best as they are able to.
I'm pretty tolerant toward low standard dps, as long as it does not has consequences.
Still, it is not ellitis to expect a minimum from team mates. Having them endure a nice reality slap in their face is good from time to time.
Stop defending every one. When you queue in a lvl 60 content with lvl 50 weapon, you are NOT defendable.

And I approve the idea of being unable to equip a piece of gear below the minimum lvl required for the duty. Gearing up in this game is far too easy to allow such behaviors.

[Yudzster]

the white knighting is real in this thread holy fuk

[Reynhart]

No....I've basically shown that it is a problem with that in progress run with the BLM in my original post and also the testing I did.

Maybe you should have read the next sentence...

Building on that, the discussion is how the system could be tweaked to ensure that "Required ilvl" is a proper measurement.

Seems to me you're the one missing the problem here - unless we want to assume that having a weapon this far below the requirements for the duty is "working as intended", the system is obviously flawed, because this shouldnt happen

If the same player came with i110 head, hands, and feet, no one would even have noticed...

This system doesnt has to be fixed - just because the game allows for it right now doesnt mean it shouldnt be discussed how to change it to prevent such "abuse" (you cant be fine with this sort of gear in this sort of content).

Hmm, yeah...that's what we do here...

People are only defending this coz its a dps, if it was any other role it wouldn't be tolerated for a second.

Let me borrow your sentence, please. People are only bitching about this coz it's a weapon, if it was any other piece, it wouldn't matter at all.

[SendohJin]

why is this a topic? Vote Dismiss is a thing, use it.

[JunseiKei]

Weren't people able to enter Duties with Crafting/Gathering accessories? or rather, entirely dressed in Crafting/Gathering gear? Or are they still able to?

They had been able to until 1) SE made it so if the gear was so far under the ilevel for the dungeon, no EXP was gained (cannot SB) and 2) locked newer gear to Discipline of Land or Hand. Before that, yes, it was fairly common to see people in half crafting or gathering gear to SB for materia. It was incredibly frustrating.

If the same player came with i110 head, hands, and feet, no one would even have noticed...

People are only bitching about this coz it's a weapon, if it was any other piece, it wouldn't matter at all.

Then you come across someone like me who says, "Dude. Why the hell are you using something that's 60 main stat below the minimum?" if it was an accessory, then probably kick them after advising them that they still need to gear up and this as not the current place to use to gear up.

While I'm sure the last sentence was sarcasm, Underdog2204 was pointing out a valid observation. People tend to overlook DPS unless things go wrong, like failing a DPS check. Which can imply various things, including, but not limited to:

1) multiple DPS are under-geared;
2) one DPS is severely under-geared to the point others are unable to make up the loss;
3) everyone's gear is fine, but they are not utilizing things correctly).

It's much easier to pick up on if a tank is under-geared (HP being below thresholds that are common) or if a healer is ill-equipped and struggling to keep the party up.

However, yes, it's all the more important in this situation since the weapon caps your other stats. As it's been stated before, and I'll use my own experience testing it, with all 270 gear but the weapon, which was i110, my DPS and healing potential was halved. Just because of the weapon. That's a huge issue and the current minimum ilevel requirement allows this flaw to slip by.

[Reynhart]

As it's been stated before, and I'll use my own experience testing it, with all 270 gear but the weapon, which was i110, my DPS and healing potential was halved. Just because of the weapon. That's a huge issue and the current minimum ilevel requirement allows this flaw to slip by.

And I still think that your potential with an i110 head, hands, waist and feet and other gear i270 including the weapon should not be miles above having an i110 weapon and all other gear i270. That's why I suggested that more emphasis should be on Attack Power than pure weapon damage.

Yet, I'm still convinced that, if you join a party with someone having a really low body piece, you wouldn't even notice, since the DPS would be fairly acceptable for the fight. Especially on A9 which is pretty low on party-wide damage.

[Vidu]

If the same player came with i110 head, hands, and feet, no one would even have noticed...
Let me borrow your sentence, please. People are only bitching about this coz it's a weapon, if it was any other piece, it wouldn't matter at all.

Yeah, but thats the issue here: ONE piece of gear making a huge difference (specially compared to accessories).
So there are basically three options:
1) Average ilvl is calculated based on the "weight" the piece is contirbuting - aka weapon more than the bodypiece and the bodypiece more than your earrings
2) We seperate ilvl and weapon-ilvl
3) The contribution of the weapon to the overall damage gets lowered (atm it seems that it makes up about half of the damage instead of the 1/13 or 2/13 that it is when calculating the average ilvl)

The issue is simply: not having appropriate gear always sucks, but when it comes to the weapon is especially bad because of the system that is in place. So this seems to be a problem that should be adressed - again, just because the game allows someone with an ilvl110 weapon to enter Alexander at the moment, doesnt mean that that is okay (and quite frankly I cant imagine that thats "working as intended") and doesnt has to change.

And I still think that your potential with an i110 head, hands, waist and feet and other gear i270 including the weapon should not be miles above having an i110 weapon and all other gear i270. That's why I suggested that more emphasis should be on Attack Power than pure weapon damage.

Yet, I'm still convinced that, if you join a party with someone having a really low body piece, you wouldn't even notice, since the DPS would be fairly acceptable for the fight. Especially on A9 which is pretty low on party-wide damage.

Ah, now I'm getting your point - you'd go for option 3) then? And make the weapon "weaker"?
Mmh... not sure if I like that tbh - while I do see the problem here with questlines like the relic and weapons being the ultimate reward from raids I can understand that they're giving the most boost when it comes to damage - just like armor gives you more HP/protection for incoming damage. The weapon is what deals damage, the rest of the gear is what protects you - seems pretty intutive to me...
And its also a bit more "interesting" - we dont have that many choices in the game after all, but if every piece of gear basically does the same those options get even lowered when it doesnt matter if you get a new weapon or a new bodypiece.

(and btw: I do notice when the DPS, tank or healer are missing good gear in dungeons - and depending on the duty I'll say something. Had a tank in DV recently, best accessory was a level 39 earring, everything else was way below. We couldnt do the duty because the healer couldnt keep him up - probably because they were missing 2-3k HP...? And yes, this was a tank - but why should dps NOT have to care about gear?)