[DEV Question] Why is this allowed?

[loreleidiangelo]

I don't really understand how people can justify this. Even a regular ol crafted LEVEL 58 WEAPON is vastly more powerful than a 110 relic. Even a weapon from the FIRST LEVELING DUNGEON OF HW is more powerful than a 110 weapon. As much as I hate throwing deadweight into PVP, just doing like 5 Frontlines is enough to have an i235 weapon for one job baseline, completing ignoring stuff like Bismarck EX (designed for people in i140 gear), crafted gear (not all of it is the expensive i250 stuff), HUNTS (FFS easiest way to get a semi-decent weapon), or sacking Lore tomes to buy the i230 one (or doing the fairly easy, heavily nerfed relic steps up to the i230 point).

This person was either a troll, threw his actual weapon away accidentally which sucks but is NOT the problem of the 7 other people trying to clear the content, or equipped the wrong weapon by accident and for some heinous reason no one asked him about it in chat (didn't read the whole thread, have no clue if anyone even said anything to him). The fact that there are people defending this is just sad.

[Reynhart]

The fact that there are people defending this is just sad.

You're missing the real issue here. "Required ilvl" is made to ensure that your character is able to properly do its part. If the game decided that this BLM was able to enter, then it's not a problem that he's here in that state. If he had a higher weapon, then switched it, resulting in a lower ilvl than required, then it would be a problem.

Building on that, the discussion is how the system could be tweaked to ensure that "Required ilvl" is a proper measurement. Some people advocate for higher emphasis en weapon ilvl either by adjusting the weight or putting a "min weapon ilvl required", I suggested that weapon should not have such a vastly superior impact than basically every other piece of gear, since all items are chosen in regards to their damage increase.

If armor would not increase DPS (And weapon would not increase survivability, even if only a little), I'd be totally ok to put a "AP required" and "VIT required" on duties, akin to the multiple requirements of GC Squadrons.

[bswpayton]

Okay so I know the DF has rules in place for average item level in order to queue for specific content, but I find what I just saw to be very ridiculous in terms of what the DF will allow players to do.


...

haha awesome we actually agree on something yea, this is crazy no way he should be in there with a main hand weapon like that, the only thing Id say could be off is the accessories because you have to get from crafters are drops from dungeons. But yea this player was just lazy you can buy a 150 staff just from a vender they prob where playing a different job and just said screw it and went in , totally bad idea.

[Nestama]

You're missing the real issue here. "Required ilvl" is made to ensure that your character is able to properly do its part. If the game decided that this BLM was able to enter, then it's not a problem that he's here in that state. If he had a higher weapon, then switched it, resulting in a lower ilvl than required, then it would be a problem.

Weren't people able to enter Duties with Crafting/Gathering accessories? or rather, entirely dressed in Crafting/Gathering gear? Or are they still able to?

It is a problem if a person is using a weapon that is both ten levels and a hundred and twenty item levels below the minimum ilvl of the content. If SE went with your suggestion, the BLM would actually do even less damage since their weapon is now more "balanced" towards i110 gear (and those secondary stats they went with... what even).

[Reynhart]

If SE went with your suggestion, the BLM would actually do even less damage since their weapon is now more "balanced" towards i110 gear (and those secondary stats they went with... what even).

No, the BLM would do more damage since its Attack Power would have a greater impact

[Legion88]

Weren't people able to enter Duties with Crafting/Gathering accessories? or rather, entirely dressed in Crafting/Gathering gear? Or are they still able to?

It is still possible to enter a duty only wearing crafter gear, you need only high enough average item level and you could enter ARF maybe higher, depending on your weapon and individual style of gear mixup.

[Nestama]

No, the BLM would do more damage since its Attack Power would have a greater impact

So let me get this straight... if SE goes with your idea and a player with a level 50 weapon, possibly in the i90 range and they enter level 60 content with mostly i260-270 gear and accessories, their DPS will still be decent because of their gear stats? What even is the point of a weapon then? i230-240, 250 and 260-270 gear are very easy to acquire (Savage being the exception), whereas a weapon requires you to earn it either by grinding PotD, doing Alexander Midas/Creator 4 or 7 times to get tokens, beating Primals, beating Alexander Prime Savage, or doing the long Anima quest.

It is still possible to enter a duty only wearing crafter gear, you need only high enough average item level and you could enter ARF maybe higher, depending on your weapon and individual style of gear mixup.

Alrighty, so if I find a way to equip crafter gear and still be able to enter The Creator, Reynhart would have to concede that this is perfectly alright, since the game decided to let me enter :^)

[Miste]

"Required ilvl" is made to ensure that your character is able to properly do its part.

You cannot properly do your part with a level 50 i110 weapon in level 60 end game content. Not sure why I would have to repeat this fact at this point in the thread.

If the game decided that this BLM was able to enter, then it's not a problem that he's here in that state.

No....I've basically shown that it is a problem with that in progress run with the BLM in my original post and also the testing I did.

The group wiped (possibly multiple times) before people ditched and DF eventually replaced half the group with people who could carry this player's low DPS due to the BLM's massively improper weapon. So not only did he waste his own time; he wasted the time of up to 11+ other players (the party was half missing when I joined). I believe the DF itself shouldn't let that happen.

As soon as you argue that "it is not a problem because the game let him queue" then...that means I could dress my tank in the full i150 crafter gear and queue for ARF/Fractal/Neverreap and no one should have any problem with it even though I won't be able to actually tank or do my job. Still no problem?

This is the gear I could wear on my tank and still queue:

http://xivdb.com/item/11959/chimeric...an+of+crafting
http://xivdb.com/item/11964/chimeric...et+of+crafting
http://xivdb.com/item/11977/chimerical+felt+skirt
http://xivdb.com/item/11982/serpentskin+shoes
http://xivdb.com/item/11969/serpents...es+of+crafting

To top all this off I could even equip healing accessories to go with this crafting gear and still queue so I would have almost no VIT and no STR.

This is just an example and it isn't really end game content (more like entry level end game) but it is basically an example showing you that the game might let you queue but obviously there are times when it shouldn't (just like my original post) and that it is a problem whether you want to accept it or not.

This is seriously not a problem that I am there in that state because the game let me queue? If you still think that then I don't know what to say.

[Vidu]

If the game decided that this BLM was able to enter, then it's not a problem that he's here in that state.

Seems to me you're the one missing the problem here - unless we want to assume that having a weapon this far below the requirements for the duty is "working as intended", the system is obviously flawed, because this shouldnt happen (and I cant imagine that the devs really had this sort of thing in mind when creating the average ilvl requirement...).
Asking for this to change is totally legit - we got the minimum ilvl because it was pointed out that people were entering dungeons without proper gear. This system doesnt has to be fixed - just because the game allows for it right now doesnt mean it shouldnt be discussed how to change it to prevent such "abuse" (you cant be fine with this sort of gear in this sort of content).

So saying "But the game says its fine!" is a pretty lame answer, specially when the whole thread was about "This shouldnt be fine, please change the system somehow". Just because something is okay/"legal" at somepoint doesnt mean it cant or shouldnt change...

[Darkobra]

Oh, good. The game's still casual and impossible to fail. I was looking for something mindless as I watched my DVD collection.