[DEV Question] Why is this allowed?

[Vidu]

If the same player came with i110 head, hands, and feet, no one would even have noticed...
Let me borrow your sentence, please. People are only bitching about this coz it's a weapon, if it was any other piece, it wouldn't matter at all.

Yeah, but thats the issue here: ONE piece of gear making a huge difference (specially compared to accessories).
So there are basically three options:
1) Average ilvl is calculated based on the "weight" the piece is contirbuting - aka weapon more than the bodypiece and the bodypiece more than your earrings
2) We seperate ilvl and weapon-ilvl
3) The contribution of the weapon to the overall damage gets lowered (atm it seems that it makes up about half of the damage instead of the 1/13 or 2/13 that it is when calculating the average ilvl)

The issue is simply: not having appropriate gear always sucks, but when it comes to the weapon is especially bad because of the system that is in place. So this seems to be a problem that should be adressed - again, just because the game allows someone with an ilvl110 weapon to enter Alexander at the moment, doesnt mean that that is okay (and quite frankly I cant imagine that thats "working as intended") and doesnt has to change.

And I still think that your potential with an i110 head, hands, waist and feet and other gear i270 including the weapon should not be miles above having an i110 weapon and all other gear i270. That's why I suggested that more emphasis should be on Attack Power than pure weapon damage.

Yet, I'm still convinced that, if you join a party with someone having a really low body piece, you wouldn't even notice, since the DPS would be fairly acceptable for the fight. Especially on A9 which is pretty low on party-wide damage.

Ah, now I'm getting your point - you'd go for option 3) then? And make the weapon "weaker"?
Mmh... not sure if I like that tbh - while I do see the problem here with questlines like the relic and weapons being the ultimate reward from raids I can understand that they're giving the most boost when it comes to damage - just like armor gives you more HP/protection for incoming damage. The weapon is what deals damage, the rest of the gear is what protects you - seems pretty intutive to me...
And its also a bit more "interesting" - we dont have that many choices in the game after all, but if every piece of gear basically does the same those options get even lowered when it doesnt matter if you get a new weapon or a new bodypiece.

(and btw: I do notice when the DPS, tank or healer are missing good gear in dungeons - and depending on the duty I'll say something. Had a tank in DV recently, best accessory was a level 39 earring, everything else was way below. We couldnt do the duty because the healer couldnt keep him up - probably because they were missing 2-3k HP...? And yes, this was a tank - but why should dps NOT have to care about gear?)

[Miste]

Maybe you should have read the next sentence...

Maybe you should have read the sentence you wrote which I quoted....

If the game decided that this BLM was able to enter, then it's not a problem that he's here in that state.

^You, in plain readable English, said that if the game let the BLM enter then "it's not a problem".

Which was the reason for my last response to you.

Yes you said this after....

Building on that, the discussion is how the system could be tweaked to ensure that "Required ilvl" is a proper measurement.

But how does this^ sentence somehow remove or backtrack the opinion you clearly wrote in your first paragraph that "it's not a problem"? Your second paragraph doesn't somehow invalidate the first paragraph you wrote....like you are really confusing me.

Building on that? No...that isn't what the thread is about. No matter if he queued using it or changed it inside it is still a problem because no matter how he did it level 50 i110 weapon in level 60 content is massively inappropriate and the game shouldn't have let him queue with it or change to it. It's fine about your idea to make the weapon less significant, while I might not agree with that approach I have no issue with your ideas/opinions on that.

My issue was you claiming "if the game lets you enter it's not a problem". Which is why I posted that example in my last post, which you didn't comment on for some reason, about Queueing as a tank for level 60 dungeons with full crafting gear and healing accessories on.



This is a tank queueing for a dungeon wearing all crafting gear and healing accessories and level 50 weapon going into level 60 content. The game let me do it. So I guess it isn't a problem?

Again, as soon as you say that it isn't a problem because the game let them queue then what I just did in that screenshot is 100% no problem at all. That's why you just cannot support that kind of reasoning because in the end you just turn into a hypocrite. Anyone who plays this game knows that screenshot is a serious problem. (btw I have less VIT than a level 40 something tank)

Now my example doesn't have much to do with the topic because honestly I've never seen someone do what I just tried to do (I really hope no one would be dense enough to do it either; the potential is there it is just unlikely), but using "the game let them enter" as a reason why it is no problem that the BLM was there in that state... that's where it becomes ridiculous. You just can't accept that and that is what my example is showing.

Yes the game let him queue, or the game let him change to that weapon in the instance, but weapon by itself is too important which is why I advocate a simple change to the DF system where it checks your weapon when you try to queue and inside the instance will bar you from changing to a massively inappropriate weapon also.

Just because the game lets you queue doesn't mean there are no flaws with the DF system. It obviously isn't perfect looking at the screenshot I just took. If it was perfect it wouldn't let someone queue in a state where they cannot do their job for the content and extremely hard (if not completely impossible) for you to clear the content.

Note: I hit withdraw, not going into a dungeon like that :/

You believe if the game let him enter then there is no problem and that there is only a problem if he changes gear inside the instance, but in the end you are just ignoring the fact that the reason for this thread is the fact that he could actually queue with that weapon (I checked on my BLM and equipping an i110 weapon only brought me down to i240), or he could switch to it inside the duty, and BOTH scenarios are a problem.

[bswpayton]

Okay so I know the DF has rules in place for average item level in order to queue for specific content, but I find what I just saw to be very ridiculous in terms of what the DF will allow players to do.


...

haha awesome we actually agree on something yea, this is crazy no way he should be in there with a main hand weapon like that, the only thing Id say could be off is the accessories because you have to get from crafters are drops from dungeons. But yea this player was just lazy you can buy a 150 staff just from a vender they prob where playing a different job and just said screw it and went in , totally bad idea.

[Darkobra]

Oh, good. The game's still casual and impossible to fail. I was looking for something mindless as I watched my DVD collection.

[Underdog2204]

hmm probably around 3000-4000 damage on fire 4 is acceptable when the ilvl requirement asks for around 5000-6000... People are only defending this coz its a dps, if it was any other role it wouldn't be tolerated for a second.

Mhmm the babysitting is real in this thread.

[Zojha]

People are only defending this coz its a dps, if it was any other role it wouldn't be tolerated for a second.

You say that, but people are also defending healers only using a fraction of their toolkit because "muh role".

Tanks are probably the only ones getting screwed out of the deal here.

[Underdog2204]

You say that, but people are also defending healers only using a fraction of their toolkit because "muh role".

Tanks are probably the only ones getting screwed out of the deal here.

Thats true but the difference is the healer wouldn't even be healing like they should.

I have been in this exact situation on a gubal hard run with WHM using a ilvl 145 cane. Couldn't keep the tank up on basic pulls.... Too right we booted that one xD

[Mejingjard]

Tanks are probably the only ones getting screwed out of the deal here.

Only shitty tanks are screwed. Good tanks do not try to be the least usefull as possible.
Nah in fact, good players in general try to perform their role as best as they are able to.
I'm pretty tolerant toward low standard dps, as long as it does not has consequences.
Still, it is not ellitis to expect a minimum from team mates. Having them endure a nice reality slap in their face is good from time to time.
Stop defending every one. When you queue in a lvl 60 content with lvl 50 weapon, you are NOT defendable.

And I approve the idea of being unable to equip a piece of gear below the minimum lvl required for the duty. Gearing up in this game is far too easy to allow such behaviors.

[Yudzster]

the white knighting is real in this thread holy fuk

[SendohJin]

why is this a topic? Vote Dismiss is a thing, use it.