With the launch of Stormblood

[Brian_]

Short of making all three tanks identical, they are never going to be able to balance the tanks across 2 different sub-roles. It doesn't matter how small the gap in performance is, people will find it and they will make it matter.

The gap between PLD and DRK right now is not even that bad. The gap is between PLD / DRK and WAR as an OT.

So, do PLD and DRK need to be competitive OTs? With a new expansion looming? I don't think so. Then again, I am not married to a job like some people are. If I want to MT, I will play PLD or DRK. If I want to OT... I guess I have no choice but to play WAR. If they make PLD and DRK viable OTs, then yea, I'd have more options. Do you know how else I'd have more options? If they just added a new OT.

So yea, sometimes it's not a matter of choice. Sometimes you queue into DF or RF and get a PLD + DRK pairing. And? Are you trying to optimize raid DPS in DF / RF or something? Or blaming your inability to clear on PLD + DRK?

When I choose to play DRG, MNK, or NIN, I am choosing to play one role. Melee DPS. When I choose to play BRD, I am choosing to play one role. Ranged DPS. Are tanks really so special that we get to ask SE that all our jobs should fill two slightly varying roles equally optimally?

This is still a problem. The OT skillset needs to allow the tank to be a fully competent MT, but the other is not true. Just look at what PLD loses if it's not actively tanking.
If SAM was designed to be an OT tank, you can be sure that all premade parties would have sought SAM+WAR.

How about no? You keep on saying this garbage but it's wrong.

PLD is a better MT than WAR. Especially during progression. As long as your new OT job is really competitive with WAR and similarly worse than PLD / DRK as MT, you'd have no issues.

[Reynhart]

When I choose to play DRG, MNK, or NIN, I am choosing to play one role. Melee DPS. When I choose to play BRD, I am choosing to play one role. Ranged DPS. Are tanks really so special that we get to ask SE that all our jobs should fill two slightly varying roles equally optimally?

By your absurd logic, WAR, as an "OT" should be as bad a "MT" than MNK is bad at being a "Ranged DPS"...

[ShadowYomi]

These type of posts make me feel 4.0 would be good time to level and play a tank.

[aleph_null]

Actually in a pld/war composition it's not too big of a difference between having either of them as MT. In a12s it's probably better to have the war take more tank busters than the pld (holmgang - thrill/venge - swap to pld - holmgang - thrill/venge). Drk is a lot more inclined to the MT type since it has two dps skills based on parry procs and mp regen skill based on taking damage.

Anyway I'm not against what you suggested, having all 3 tanks viable for either slot, I'm just saying that's a lot harder to balance, and a lot more things can (and probably will) go wrong. Since we don't get a new tank in 4.0 I guess that's the road SE is trying to follow, so let's just see how it goes.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Anyway I'm not against what you suggested, having all 3 tanks viable for either slot, I'm just saying that's a lot harder to balance, and a lot more things can (and probably will) go wrong. Since we don't get a new tank in 4.0 I guess that's the road SE is trying to follow, so let's just see how it goes.

Actually balancing 3 compositions now and adding a forth tank and balancing 3 new compositions later is easier than adding a forth tank now and then trying to balance 6 compositions.

[Belhi]

Actually balancing 3 compositions now and adding a forth tank and balancing 3 new compositions later is easier than adding a forth tank now and then trying to balance 6 compositions.

The only way your going to effectively balance all 3 tanks for both MT and OT positions is to effectively homogenise their strengths and weaknesses and effectively make the difference between them cosmetic. I don't think that is what most tanks actually want. A better bet would be to intentionally balance each role towards either MT or OT and make them noticeably worse at the other. The current meta isn't really diverse enough to allow for them to be equally good in each role and still have their own niche.

[Ultimatecalibur]

The only way your going to effectively balance all 3 tanks for both MT and OT positions is to effectively homogenise their strengths and weaknesses and effectively make the difference between them cosmetic. I don't think that is what most tanks actually want. A better bet would be to intentionally balance each role towards either MT or OT and make them noticeably worse at the other. The current meta isn't really diverse enough to allow for them to be equally good in each role and still have their own niche.

People who think balance requires homogenization really don't get what true balance nor true homogenization is. True homogenization is incredibly easy to balance (because all actions and all numbers are exactly the same), but balance does not require that all factors be the same only that the end results are close to equal. Homogeization would be all 3 tanks are reskinned Paladins, balance is all three tanks dealing the similar average damage and having similar levels of durability.

As long as Warriors manage "Origin" stacks, Dark Knights manage MP consumption and Paladins have their own individual playstyle, even if the end result is the same, they will not be homogenized. Are Black Mages and Summoners homogeneous even though they deal similar levels of damage? Do you expect Red Mage to be homogeneous with them? I suspect the answers to both questions are no.

[Minnel]

No way im missing the golden opportunity... Why dont we all just make DPS players pay the tanks to be in a shorter que? (Unless FC mates or friends ofc) Bet we can make loads of gils...
Is what people are saying

[Rinari]

I'm still kinda new but..

Aren't all the classes getting a bit of working + whatever skills happen in the 61-70 range? Maybe I'm off track, but I thought we were losing cross-class skills and gaining role skills. I'd assume we'd have some culling of less useful skills to clean up bloat while they're in there. I think that's plenty to be excited about without fixating on having a whole new job. Tank ques for raids are sometimes bad I hear, for lack of DPS! I expect that will ease up with the fancy new DPS jobs.

I intend to keep tanking as usual. I'll probably be queuing in PF a lot for EXP when I'm not running with friends.

I expect any real 'protest' will be limited to tank maining players trying out the new DPS jobs, with most eventually returning to their tank jobs after the shine wears off. That is perfectly acceptable! There will most definitely be a tank and healer shortage (moreso than usual) at SB launch because the new jobs are all DPS. Those of us that stick around get to be belles of the ball for a while. I'm looking forward to it!

[Maero]

I for one have always mainly been dps and am not happy that Stormblood will only bring DPS as new jobs.
Would have switched to Dancer but that dream may come by 6.0 i guess since 5.0 will prob be dps again and blu, lol
1 tank, 1 heal and 1 dps would have been better. 9 dps is overkill....