How to make the 3rd raid difficulty work

[Arutan]

It's nothing different than what it is today. You don't clear A12S, you don't have access to a i275 weapon, mount, possible Best-in-Slot gear, etc.. You aren't getting the top ilevel weapon handed to you on a silver platter, not even for free when they add/nerf the anima steps.

But at some point you will just unsynch it and get what you want. Plus, the current difficulty is low, far more low than ever before, for more people to be able to get all of this. Because they whined to get it.

[jameseoakes]

But at some point you will just unsynch it and get what you want. Plus, the current difficulty is low, far more low than ever before, for more people to be able to get all of this. Because they whined to get it.

That or the clear rates where so low that they wanted to make content the people would actually do?

[Arutan]

That or the clear rates where so low that they wanted to make content the people would actually do?

When the clear rate is low, it means it's good. It's raid, not a walk in the park. Raid were always mean to be harder than anything else in a MMO, dedicated to end-game player to spend their time on it. The story mode exist for casual player to do it and enjoy the bosses and the map design without having to face the hard difficulty of the savage mode. The more time passes, the less we can differenciate both. A9S is a joke, anyone can do it eyes closed. A10S can be done as long as you have at least a half of brain.
Lots of people have stopped playing the game for weeks now 'cause they already cleared all floor times and times again, and we have to wait 6 months before the next expansion, with nothing to entertain us. Dun Scaith? Mean to be casual. 1h a tuesday and done. Zurvan? Well nope, low difficulty too for casual to enjoy it because normal isn't enough for them. Clear within an evening then bye.

[Watachy]

Snip

Finally someone understanding the raiding problems.

I would say just that casuals can get 275 weapons (last relic step) and the mount ain't that worth it since people will just unsynch it after StormBlood.

[Cetonis]

The 3rd tier, aka "special content" after completing O4S was mentioned in the Frankfurt fanfest live letter.

Right, but Yoshi never said specifically that it was a third tier above Bend of Time Savage - rather, when I look back to this: http://gamerescape.com/2016/11/15/fa...-fan-festival/

F: Something above savage?

Y: Hmmm… Not a more difficult version but rather the content itself being challenging. Only parties that have fulfilled all of the requirements could take on the challenge.

F: Something like players who have cleared the last tier of savage can try it out?

Y: If I were to give an example, then yes. If we were to make it, we would go all out, so complaints like “It’s too hard” won’t be allowed. (laugh)

There's a chance that changed of course, but no signs that it actually has, that I know of.

[Ghishlain]

Even if the proposed challenging content YoshiP has suggested is not a third raid tier, I still feel it's important for the reward for this challenge content to be vanity-only. The idea is to have a strong challenge for people looking for this challenge - these players don't need any carrot-on-the-stick reward scheme though a vanity gear/title/minion to show off "We've done the content!" would be very nice.

I don't know much about it but I feel the master trial recently released in XI is a good example. Literally just a whole fight stupidly tough boss mob(s) for a level 1 glamour weapon.

INB4 "EEEEEEWWW FFXI"

[Mindiori]

Obviously there's always a huge disconnect/back and forth, with the politically correct 'don't offend the casual gamer by gating content' sentiment in these discussions.

I regularly hear the excuse that; 'People don't want to pay for other people to enjoy content they can't complete. Especially if they feel that content takes a lot of developer attention off of other things that they can'.

Yet we play a game together. One that lives and dies on interaction and community. Subsequently why wouldn't everyone want every demographic to be catered to - in order to preserve the game and help it grow? Everyone benefits from that.

I'd imagine the most effective way to deal with a challenge tier is to incorporate a separate progression system into it of some kind. A little like PoTD. In past games, developers have implemented mostly vanity rewards to, 'i achieved that, can show it off but - it doesnt physically make me more powerful'. It works. No reason that cant be built upon further.

[Cetonis]

players don't need any carrot-on-the-stick reward scheme

Yes they do. If they didn't, more people than virtually-nobody would be going back and trying to min-sync clear A4S and A8S, or do the former with Nisi since they probably didn't originally. Or heck, min syncing SCoB Savage. Challenge in and of itself doesn't drive people enough to put in dozens of hours of time on a fight.

Having a gear reward still matters, at the end of the day. An i280-equivalent weapon would be "vanity" for most intents and purposes, but would feel far bigger than that and would eventually have a real value of some time savings down the road. It wouldn't be any worse than i275 weapons are now, and nobody complains about those.

Also, the use of such a reward can increase the content's staying power, especially if it's locked to the class you cleared on as described before. Theoretically that could be done with level 1 weapons too, but you'd be relying a lot on people universally getting super hype over the looks of every piece, which is obviously impossible.

[Ghishlain]

Yes they do. If they didn't, more people than virtually-nobody would be going back and trying to min-sync clear A4S and A8S, or do the former with Nisi since they probably didn't originally. Or heck, min syncing SCoB Savage. Challenge in and of itself doesn't drive people enough to put in dozens of hours of time on a fight.

Having a gear reward still matters, at the end of the day. An i280-equivalent weapon would be "vanity" for most intents and purposes, but would feel far bigger than that and would eventually have a real value of some time savings down the road. It wouldn't be any worse than i275 weapons are now, and nobody complains about those.

Also, the use of such a reward can increase the content's staying power, especially if it's locked to the class you cleared on as described before. Theoretically that could be done with level 1 weapons too, but you'd be relying a lot on people universally getting super hype over the looks of every piece, which is obviously impossible.

Every single player looking to get on the leader board for FFLogs speed kills would like a word with you.

There's no reward for trying to beat the hardest content in the fastest time possible yet people still do it - for the challenge, for the prestige, for the ego - it doesn't matter but they're literally doing it for zero in-game reward.

SCH and WAR videos who solo EX Primals - no (worthwhile) reward
Low man Sophia EX clear - no (worthwhile) reward
PotD Solo Ranking does exist - no (worthwhile) reward

The players do exist for these kinds of challenge.

And yes a reward may help incentivize players to partake on the content but I would still prefer that to be showoff pieces that do not contribute to a player's stat progression in any meaningful way.

[Reynhart]

There's no reward for trying to beat the hardest content in the fastest time possible yet people still do it - for the challenge, for the prestige, for the ego...

For the fastest farm giving you plenty of time to do something else...

SCH and WAR videos who solo EX Primals - no (worthwhile) reward
Low man Sophia EX clear - no (worthwhile) reward
PotD Solo Ranking does exist - no (worthwhile) reward

You're right, no (worthwile) reward...but also no weekly farm enforced so that people won't start complaining that there is nothing to do...which, by the way is also not enforced by neither a title reward nor the challenge to beat the content, giving your top-tier content absurdingly low lifetime.

Definitely not worth the cost.