How to make the 3rd raid difficulty work

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Why nobody say this about The Feast?

Exactly.

You could make a similar argument not many people are hardcore crafters and barely anyone PvPs. Should we drop those too? If we're only going to have two difficulties, how about one that isn't a total faceroll? No matter how you slice it they are catering to someone. It's silly to get mad at raiders who want more of a challenge. Furthermore, it's a misconception the impact a third difficulty will have on resources. They literally have to make a separate instance and change some numbers. No new mechanics, no new settings and likely no idea gear. Extreme Savage is basically taking current Savage entirely and making it harder. That way everyone's happy.

[Reynhart]

No, all I can offer is observation and on Tiamat (very low population server) while the content was still relevant, I'd routinely see 10+ players at any given time wearing the titles.

Sorry, but "looking around you" is hardly a clear evidence.

I don't think this is a good idea for 2 reasons..: Balance and incentives.

"Balance" against what ? Every raider would have the same chance to drop those items.
As for incentive, even if you could get 8 pieces, you'd still need to do creator to complete your set. And if you didn't drop, Creator loot will help clearing every raid faster, thus increasing the odds of looting this special gear. Especially if this special gear is actually higher than i270.

And then there won't be anything to strive for with the gear when the raid is over too.

Yes, there is...Stormblood content. If the gear you drop won't get replaced until the next level cap, you'll use them far more than any normal drops.

And guess what? That challenge you want is being added as the third difficulty. So what if there is a normal mode, it doesn't diminish the satisfaction you get for beating the hardest version of the fight.

No, it diminishes the incentive to do it. Challenge only for the sake of challenge is boring.

And I love how you just assume I'm a horrible player because I don't raid.

I don't assume you're a horrible player. There's no difference between clearing Rivenroad in 1.23 and killing a raid boss. If you don't like that, you just probably wouldn't have done it. And if you would have, I'd like to understand why you don't like raiding ?

The major factor was people asking for more than they could chew

Sure, Gordias was brutal. But having a good incentive is what pushes people to get better. If there's none, they'll just say "fuck it, I can have on par gear without it"

As for gear, savage gear has always been better than the normal gear, I'm not even sure the point you are trying to make with that.

Yes, but why non-raiders should obtain same ilvl gear ?

I don't want your gear or mounts or minions or titles.

Maybe you don't, but people do. That's why we have alternate means of obtaining upgrade items since second coil.

[Magic-Mal]

.

That's bad though because when the actual i270 raid comes out people would beat it way too fast. Therefore, messing up balance AND giving players an excuse to be bored and say "It was too easy". Not only that, the moment a previous raid tier gets it lockout removed, players would farm it for i270 loot.

By the way there are 12 slots in a set of gear. And only 11 slots to fill due to only being able to carry one ring. So that would be 8/11 pieces of the final raid. Why do the raid longer than a week or two?

[Watachy]

Doesn't that show there isn't much demand for that kind of content?

That just mean raiders don't wanna bother themselves spending 6/10hours a week for a title they won't even wear...

Yes, but why non-raiders should obtain same ilvl gear ?

This...A casual will have the same ilvl of a raider but will never have the same skill without training...
I love how these days people base everything on ilvl. And when you actually look at your parse the numbers aren't that high

[Reynhart]

That's bad though because when the actual i270 raid comes out people would beat it way too fast.

No, they won't. You just have to focus more on mechanics than gear checks.

Not only that, the moment a previous raid tier gets it lockout removed, players would farm it for i270 loot.

They would still only have 4 items for each tier. It's still better than having everything you dropped being obsolete. And frankly, even when Midas was released, most people were still unable to clear Gordias Savage.

[Arutan]

Basically, why everyone who are here to say "Buuuuh, challenge is boring, I need loot" are here? This tier is about challenge that's all. Not happy with it? Don't do it, like everything else. Waste of time and ressources? Well then when you will complain about all the other thing in the game that fill this role, then you may come whining here. So stop focus this subject just because it is new. There's far more other subject that need your whining (or not).

[Reynhart]

This tier is about challenge that's all. Not happy with it? Don't do it, like everything else.

Actually, no. The Dev Team decided that Savage should reward gear, so this is still about gear. And again, it was probably because challenge and titles alone were not a strong incentive for second Coil Savage.

And why are there people saying "Buuuuh, I don't want to do it, but I still deserve the reward" in the first place ?
You don't do the content, you don't get the reward...and frankly, if it's the cutscences they want to see, go to YouTube...

[Arutan]

...

Savage do is about gear. It's the point of Savage, getting a gear above all other (more or less since tomestone is equal to it but for casuals, so with that we don't get much reward except skins).
Now we're talking about the new 3rd difficulty that doesn't need to loot gear. Mainly, it could just loot upgrade tokens to upgrade the savage gear to 275 (and weapon 280) for example. But it could just stay vanilla and be here for the challenge, which is the whole point of it. Each tier has its pupose:
Normal -> Story
Savage -> Gear
Madness -> Challenge

[Yeol]

Not everyone doing Extreme/Savage have the same goal.
- Enjoy clearing harder content.
- The gear.
- Mounts and Titles.

Story was a part of it but sadly that has been taken away when they added normal/savage difficulty.

Now, why do you think people who have Creator Savage on farm do Zurvan EX? Sure the weapon is good for sub jobs. But 270-275 weapons are still better.
They did it for the achievement and bird basically. Also Extreme fights is when people have fun with party composition and try new things.

Since already very few people are doing Savage, breaking the rewards and adding extra difficulty will result in even fewer numbers doing them.

[Reynhart]

Normal -> Story

You know what ? Let's remove gear from that, too. It will reduce gear inflation a little

Savage -> Gear

Ok, so we'll keep it as it is.

Madness -> Challenge

Like Second Coil Savage...which was not a success, and the reason why the dev team decided to put gear in Alexander Savage. Again, challenge and titles alone is not a strong enough incentive. And it's not my opinion, it's the dev's conclusion when they looked at SC Savage population...and probaly the reason why they didn't bother to release Final Coil Savage.

The problem is always the same, if you want people to keep doing your content, you have to give them meaningful rewards...but any meaningful reward will start a whining thread about people who can't have it. (Even PvP gear is concerned despite farming Wolf Marks being super easy...even if you suck at PvP).

There's only one solution : Don't listen to those people