How to make the 3rd raid difficulty work

[Vexander]

Just need to repeat from earlier. My opinion is, a third difficulty should yield a Title, and NOTHING ELSE.

No cosmetics.
No minions.
No mounts.
No emotes.

Nothing except a Title. Why? Because if you put ANYTHING other than a title as a reward for that third difficulty, I can guarantee people will immediately start doing everything within their power to get it, EXCEPT run the raid at the difficulty. There will come to the forums in droves demanding a Gold Saucer variety just as nice, or perhaps better. Or a Mog Station version. Worst of all, they will start demanding that new difficulty be made easier so they can get what they want, and that wound ruin the point behind adding it in the first place. SE listens to those kinds of complaints.

Please. Stick to Titles, or nothing at all.

[Llus]

That won't work.

You need to put rewards on this tier too if you want it to be at least tried, a build that won't be catched-up by tomes, hunts and 24man raids.
There no sense to waste that amount of time for nothing. If are people whining about it, they should just find a static and do it like other people.

Except that it DID work with coil in 2.x - people were walking around with those titles 6+ months before HW came out. Now that savage coil has been nerfed, everyone runs around with those titles like it means something.

[Reynhart]

Except that it DID work with coil in 2.x - people were walking around with those titles 6+ months before HW came out. Now that savage coil has been nerfed, everyone runs around with those titles like it means something.

Do you actually have the number of people that did Second Coil Savage ? It seems to me that the content was mostly ignored.

[jameseoakes]

Do you actually have the number of people that did Second Coil Savage ? It seems to me that the content was mostly ignored.

Doesn't that show there isn't much demand for that kind of content?

[Llus]

Hum. Yeah, true.
Well then, put a mount so that it will be relevant all the time contrary to gear that will be outdated fast. Feast has mount for top PvPers. Why not raid for top Raiders?

There are 2 raid mounts that i'm aware of, A4S and A12S (is there a mount for A8S???) Also, as far as I know, A4S is dead content again (until stormblood when everyone will unsync and farm). So, I don't think adding a mount to the third tier would be useful especially when casuals want to get it later and if it's locked behind min-ilevel. There'd be protests in the streets of whatever idle shire is in the next expansion until SE relented and made the mount available through mog station, adding echo and dumbing down the 3rd tier or making the mount available by crafting 20k unique items.

[Llus]

Do you actually have the number of people that did Second Coil Savage ? It seems to me that the content was mostly ignored.

No, all I can offer is observation and on Tiamat (very low population server) while the content was still relevant, I'd routinely see 10+ players at any given time wearing the titles. So it did work; raiders that wanted insanely difficult content had it and played it. I've no idea what the large raiding & legacy servers looked like at the time; but I'm sure there are people around who can post their observations.

[Magic-Mal]

.

Savage Coil failed. That's why they aren't doing it anymore. And most likely because they looked at the data and said "Wow.. only 0.1% of the population beat this. What a waste of time." Titles simply aren't enough to make people want to do it.

I can understand the worry about people asking for things in mogstation but really, there has already been threads with proposals to buy titles. SE just doesn't have to listen. And I'm not really seeing people begging for the gobwalker or Arrd... Alex-Egi mount. So I don't think the complaining will be as extreme as you think.

So I say, why not mounts, minions, glamours, music, furniture, and hairstyles? Purely cosmetic stuff and as long as there is an ilvl check in place, the rewards will never be devalued. Ever. Unlike some gear.

.

I don't think this is a good idea for 2 reasons..: Balance and incentives.

Back in Gordias we got i210. If i270 stuff dropped things would be pretty off balance.. And if it's on every floor, you could get 8 pieces of 270 before it's even out. Invalidating the 270 raid. And then there won't be anything to strive for with the gear when the raid is over too.

[BubblyBoar]

But the story is an integral part of "that kind of content". "Oh, look, Bahamut is a threat to all Eorzea, what a powerful foe !...that we can beat while watching Netflix"

So, in fact Coil is an integral part of a story you didn't even play, and on top of that, that you probably wouldn't have cleared since 1.xx actually had challenging story fights.

Yes, it did, but it wasn't the only culprit. The other culprit is gear lifetime. Those two together reduced the raiding population because, suddenly, neither gear nor lore was a longtime reward for raiding.

So, if they stick to normal/savage mode to include people like you, they'd better improve the other incentive of raiding. Problem is, people who don't raid still think that they deserve equal rewards than raiders, and that's wrong. If the only thing that bothered casuals was doing the raid content, removing the ability to upgrade to i270 wouldn't actually hinder their progression at all.

And guess what? That challenge you want is being added as the third difficulty. So what if there is a normal mode, it doesn't diminish the satisfaction you get for beating the hardest version of the fight. Normal mode didn't diminish the threat of Alexander. That was a whole different issue. Lore-wise, you are the only one that beat it, no one else, so just because there is an easy version of the fight doesn't mean anything. The story is for everyone, it's literally the main selling point of Final Fantasy.

And I love how you just assume I'm a horrible player because I don't raid. Just because I don't like the content doesn't mean I don't try to be good at the game. I'm not top of FFLogs nor do I try to be. But I'm also not one of those DF horror ice mages. I know my opener and rotation. I work to play my class well. I even make pots and food because I enjoy crafting them. But I don't like raiding. Amazing right?

And no, normal mode wasn't a major part of what killed raiding. The major factor was people asking for more than they could chew, whether that was because normal gave them false confidence, or because they saw others clear final coil and thought it should be harder. As for gear, savage gear has always been better than the normal gear, I'm not even sure the point you are trying to make with that.

I'm not saying savage should be for me. I've said it many times that I'm not a raider. I'm happy with normal mode and just that. Are there people asking for savage nerfs? Yes, but they are fools and I've called them out on it. I even said in the very post you quoted that I don't want anything from savage, I just want my story, that's all. Please stop making me out to be some entitled cry baby. I don't want your gear or mounts or minions or titles. All I want is the story that normal gave me and I'm happy with it. Don't conflate me with the others.

[Fevelle]

Third difficulty should not exist. It's catering to the lowest playerbase and a waste of developer time and money in my opinion. Plus, people will whine about it anyway, no matter how many difficulties are added.
Should release only one difficulty, on par with Extreme trials and spend the time of tuning 2 other difficulties on something else.

[Arutan]

Third difficulty should not exist. It's catering to the lowest playerbase and a waste of developer time and money in my opinion.

Why nobody say this about The Feast?