How to make the 3rd raid difficulty work

[YokeM]

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Yeah and I think, the more people are stating they want some kind of reward for that, the better the chances are of actually getting one. Btw. I´m saying that as a casual who is scarcely raiding these days (Although I often did in 2.x). In my opinion it`s a matter of respect that highly skilled people get the best rewards. Being an elitist about it, is a whole other matter, which also should be addressed.

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I can understand that they complain but there is a way for them to receive this gear: Get better.
In my opinion, if there was this kind of reward, more people would try to improve to get the best gear available. And even if they would fail getting it, simply trying to would bring their skills to another level. Which I think would make them feel good about themself too.

On another note: No, you don`t really "need" the ilvl 270 gear. But being able to have it is incredibly nice.

[BubblyBoar]

Make them. People who aren't ready to invest in your game are also people who will leave as soon as the next trendy MMO game launches. Making them your primary target is a bad move.

I'm a casual that doesn't do savage raids. I don't like that kind of content and it doesn't really interest me. The most I'll do are ex primals to gear my alts and such. I have been playing this game since 2.0's beta. I don't leave as soon as a new trendy MMO is out. I'm not horrible at the game, but I'm not the best either. I, at least, can clear the SSS of the content I do. I enjoy the game as something to do with friends and because I like the story. The inclusion of story mode was a godsend after being unable to do Coil. Coil wasn't just some one off side story like Alexander was. It was an integral part of the game that wrapped up what was a huge impact on the lore as a whole. The people that think I don't deserve do experience something that important to the story because I don't enjoy raiding are selfish. You already get gear, mounts, titles, minion, and everything else. All I wanted, and apparently what many other wanted was to experience the story in game. Normal mode did that and I'm happy with that.

So, no, normal mode didn't hurt FFXIV, it helped it. Stop putting the blame on normal mode and instead, put it on people who asked for content harder and more challenging than what they were ready for.

[Arutan]

So, no, normal mode didn't hurt FFXIV, it helped it. Stop putting the blame on normal mode and instead, put it on people who asked for content harder and more challenging than what they were ready for.

Normal didn't hurt the game, yes. What hurted the game is the people doing normal and wanted to do savage after experiencing the normal while they didn't have the gameplay/time for it. So they selfishely cried to the dev for them to lower savage difficulty, which they did. It's not about people asking for harder content.

[Reynhart]

I can understand that they complain but there is a way for them to receive this gear: Get better.

Which they apparently can't do, for whatever reason.

But being able to have it is incredibly nice.

It's true for any reward you may put in the game.

I'm a casual that doesn't do savage raids. I don't like that kind of content and it doesn't really interest me.

But the story is an integral part of "that kind of content". "Oh, look, Bahamut is a threat to all Eorzea, what a powerful foe !...that we can beat while watching Netflix"

I have been playing this game since 2.0's beta.

So, in fact Coil is an integral part of a story you didn't even play, and on top of that, that you probably wouldn't have cleared since 1.xx actually had challenging story fights.

So, no, normal mode didn't hurt FFXIV, it helped it.

Yes, it did, but it wasn't the only culprit. The other culprit is gear lifetime. Those two together reduced the raiding population because, suddenly, neither gear nor lore was a longtime reward for raiding.

So, if they stick to normal/savage mode to include people like you, they'd better improve the other incentive of raiding. Problem is, people who don't raid still think that they deserve equal rewards than raiders, and that's wrong. If the only thing that bothered casuals was doing the raid content, removing the ability to upgrade to i270 wouldn't actually hinder their progression at all.

[Magic-Mal]

So here is a suggestion: We already have the option to upgrade tomestone gear (e.g. 260->270). Just let the hardest raid tier drop items, which can upgrade raid and tomestone gear an additional 5 ilvl (e.g. 270->275). This would make them in no way overpowered but would still be a nice reward which actually has some benefit aside from glamour.

This won't work. Because it would be no different than doing Savage then having nothing to use the gear on after.

The main complaints I always hear from raiders about raiding/raid gear are always:

-Get gear but have nothing to use the gear on after
-Gear will be replaced next raid

Not only is i275 a tiny boost, but it would suffer the same negatives as i270. Nothing to use it on, and it'll be replaced next raid by crafting gear or something. And if it's supposed to be Ultimate-Mega hard then that is not a good incentive. Especially only 5 ilvls too.

In my opinion the best rewards will always be the rewards that won't be devalued and trashed. Hairstyles, Glamours, Mounts, Minions, Music, Furniture, Titles and Emotes.

Those are the kinds of exclusive rewards that should come from a challenge mode. And it can't just be 1 possible thing to get as loot.. It needs to be quite a bit of different things.

(Examples)
Glamour:
-Faust/Hummelfaust/Faust Z armors and weapons
-A10S Gobbiewhatshisname's gunblade or gear
-E.D.D Lance
-Male Bunny Suit

Furniture:
-Alexander Statue
-Cruise Chaser statue
-Faust Z striking dummy

Minions:
-Wind-Up Steamroller
-Wind-Up Refurbisher

Mounts:
-Gobwidow
-Onslaughter

I'd do a Ultimate-Mega mode for that!

[Reynhart]

Not only is i275 a tiny boost, but it would suffer the same negatives as i270. Nothing to use it on, and it'll be replaced next raid by crafting gear or something. And if it's supposed to be Ultimate-Mega hard then that is not a good incentive. Especially only 5 ilvls too.

I'm frequently listening to LBR podcast, and they suggested something several times.

The idea would be that each raid could drop a "final ilvl" item. For example, if SE already knows that the final ilvl of Heavensward would be 270, put a super rare i270 item slot in every level of Gordias and Midas. This way, you would have that super rare and powerful gear that will only get replaced once the level cap is increased.

Or maybe put this final ilvl at the entry ilvl on the next level cap. For example, Coil could rarely drop i150 gear. This way, even Creator could offer gear that would only be replaced at the end of 4.0 MSQ.

On top of that, the relic could also be released with all the absurdingly long steps and, instead of adding a new step every other patch, simply nerfing them.

[Mature]

I want the normal raid to get rid off and keep savage one alone.

[JunseiKei]

People said they wanted it difficult, not rewarding. So just don't put anything?

This.

People can't complain about it being easy and expect gear, especially gear that may be BiS, to [stay] gated behind something that was purposely done only to answer those that supposedly wanted a challenge. If they do put a reward, make it vanity; titles, mount, minions. Nothing gear related.

To be fair, though, I'd rather they go back to Coil format and have one difficulty with gear and then the challenge for vanity. Having two difficulties for the same fight just seems like.... a waste. Have had this stance since the first time I heard of the different tiers and now they are making three. *Sigh.* Especially since they are changing the combat system so it'll be "easier" for lower-tier players to play and keep track of things, hopefully to close the skill gap, I am considering this to be borderline pointless.

Alexander wasn't even part of the main story; Bahamut had been. Omega is seeing a return to a link to the main story. In all honesty, Bahamut wasn't too bad of a difficulty overall. To me, it was just mechanic heavy, just DPS check heavy, not too hard, not too easy for the average MMO player. You know, people that have played MMOs for years and not counting those looking to be like world or server firsts. Gordias wasn't fun; a challenge for sure, but wasn't fun. Midas I found to be a good mix. Creator feels slightly too easy again. Creator feels like a good example to aim for a general populace. Raids have never really struck me as being a pick up random people and commence and clear.

[MiniPrinny]

Titles' uniquely textured mounts, minions, and armor; perhaps even a slightly different animation for an iconic ability should you clear something truly devastatingly hard (A3S, T7S). Cosmetics and bragging rights are all good, I think placing gear at such an incredibly difficult to reach point defeats the purpose of equipment. Equipment in MMORPGs has always been about raising your stats so you may challenge greater and stronger enemies. To allow players who are already at their peak to just set the bar higher defeats this, you're just making the good players more good rather than actually rewarding them. Giving them something unique, something that is time-sensitive, that is rewarding them.

SE needs to make the cosmetic rewards of a third tier be limited. You either get those rewards when the tier is relevant or you don't get them at all. And certain rewards, like minions, mounts, and armor, could be offered again at a later point, but these items should be just for their aesthetics. The concept works for the Feast, it can work for raiding as well.

[NolLacnala]

Normal didn't hurt the game, yes. What hurted the game is the people doing normal and wanted to do savage after experiencing the normal while they didn't have the gameplay/time for it. So they selfishely cried to the dev for them to lower savage difficulty, which they did. It's not about people asking for harder content.

Normal Alex also gave us what is debatably the worst drop system the game has seen, up there with Atmas and 24mans