How to make the 3rd raid difficulty work

[Reynhart]

Let's be real. They weren't whining that they can't obtain it. Anyone can go back and unsync Coil now. They were complaining that they couldn't have it faster.

They complained before unsync was a thing. Frankly, since they added unsynced mode at HW, there is a clear answer to people who want the story "You'll have it in two years".

They won't ignore casuals whining because they're a majority into the game.

In the long run, that's not the solution. By doing this over and over, they'll just discourage all the players that try to push the skill pool higher.
The more you do easy content, the easier your next content will need to be.

[Watachy]

In the long run, that's not the solution. By doing this over and over, they'll just discourage all the players that try to push the skill pool higher.
The more you do easy content, the easier your next content will need to be.

That's exactly what is coming with SB...

[Reynhart]

That's exactly what is coming with SB...

"Challenging new dungeons" is a glimpse of hope...waiting to be crushed by the sad reality

Yoshi-P also mentionned hard content only available for people who clears The Interdimensionnal Rift Savage, so who knows...

Y: Because they are the few “chosen players”, casual players can have admiration towards them… and I think that we should maintain that connection, so me and my staff have been discussing that it might not be so bad to have something even more challenging that will target the top of the top players.

F: What is the concept behind that challenge?

Y: we think that it would be nice to have a single content that not everyone would like to challenge, so finding member wouldn’t be easy.

F: Something above savage?

Y: Hmmm… Not a more difficult version but rather the content itself being challenging. Only parties that have fulfilled all of the requirements could take on the challenge.

F: Something like players who have cleared the last tier of savage can try it out?

Y: If I were to give an example, then yes. If we were to make it, we would go all out, so complaints like “It’s too hard” won’t be allowed. (laugh)

Source

[YokeM]

Let`s face it: The majority of people won`t do content just for the challange. They want to have something in return. Something that really puts them above players that can`t clear the content. And thats totally ok. If you are the better player, you should get the better reward. Imagine football premier league players being told: "Nah bro, you don`t get paid more here, it`s just for the challenge". It simply doesn`t work that way.

So here is a suggestion: We already have the option to upgrade tomestone gear (e.g. 260->270). Just let the hardest raid tier drop items, which can upgrade raid and tomestone gear an additional 5 ilvl (e.g. 270->275). This would make them in no way overpowered but would still be a nice reward which actually has some benefit aside from glamour.

I also suggest, that someone opens a thread where all ideas are collected in the first post, so that they are easily viewable for everyone (can also be this thread).

[Watachy]

Snip

You basically summed things i was trying to implement into savage raiding before the casual army just pass by to destroy my opinion.

5/10 ilvl won't make a sensitive change but will still a decent reward for players that actually invest themselves into raiding and challenge themselves.
People coming with the "But you have the BIS build" yeah i know that, but there is no interest in spending a large amount of time just to have the same ilvl than casuals.

Let's face it with another example:
Went into a ZurvEx farm yesterday group needed 260 min ilvl, politely ask to drop it to 255 so i can join in nin (which ain't BIS since im raiding as AST) and i actually put more DPS than a full 270 guy, that apparently did not know his opener as a BRD.

That's a real problem in my opinion, im seeing too many ZurvEx parsing parties that are kicking everyone below 2K DPS.
SE did not wanted it and it's hapenning way too much these days, they should just re-think some content to actually try to make players invest themselves into the game.

And this is why JP average player skill is way higher than NA/EU.

I have an alt on tonberry and I just enjoy it. A friend of mine who also transfered there recently noticed the skill gap in DF.

Everyone near me is saying that but i actually did not try it, i should do so.
Think im gonna lag a lot on a JP server since im flocated in France :/

[YokeM]

snip

Yeah and I think, the more people are stating they want some kind of reward for that, the better the chances are of actually getting one. Btw. I´m saying that as a casual who is scarcely raiding these days (Although I often did in 2.x). In my opinion it`s a matter of respect that highly skilled people get the best rewards. Being an elitist about it, is a whole other matter, which also should be addressed.

snip

I can understand that they complain but there is a way for them to receive this gear: Get better.
In my opinion, if there was this kind of reward, more people would try to improve to get the best gear available. And even if they would fail getting it, simply trying to would bring their skills to another level. Which I think would make them feel good about themself too.

On another note: No, you don`t really "need" the ilvl 270 gear. But being able to have it is incredibly nice.

[Magic-Mal]

So here is a suggestion: We already have the option to upgrade tomestone gear (e.g. 260->270). Just let the hardest raid tier drop items, which can upgrade raid and tomestone gear an additional 5 ilvl (e.g. 270->275). This would make them in no way overpowered but would still be a nice reward which actually has some benefit aside from glamour.

This won't work. Because it would be no different than doing Savage then having nothing to use the gear on after.

The main complaints I always hear from raiders about raiding/raid gear are always:

-Get gear but have nothing to use the gear on after
-Gear will be replaced next raid

Not only is i275 a tiny boost, but it would suffer the same negatives as i270. Nothing to use it on, and it'll be replaced next raid by crafting gear or something. And if it's supposed to be Ultimate-Mega hard then that is not a good incentive. Especially only 5 ilvls too.

In my opinion the best rewards will always be the rewards that won't be devalued and trashed. Hairstyles, Glamours, Mounts, Minions, Music, Furniture, Titles and Emotes.

Those are the kinds of exclusive rewards that should come from a challenge mode. And it can't just be 1 possible thing to get as loot.. It needs to be quite a bit of different things.

(Examples)
Glamour:
-Faust/Hummelfaust/Faust Z armors and weapons
-A10S Gobbiewhatshisname's gunblade or gear
-E.D.D Lance
-Male Bunny Suit

Furniture:
-Alexander Statue
-Cruise Chaser statue
-Faust Z striking dummy

Minions:
-Wind-Up Steamroller
-Wind-Up Refurbisher

Mounts:
-Gobwidow
-Onslaughter

I'd do a Ultimate-Mega mode for that!

[Reynhart]

Not only is i275 a tiny boost, but it would suffer the same negatives as i270. Nothing to use it on, and it'll be replaced next raid by crafting gear or something. And if it's supposed to be Ultimate-Mega hard then that is not a good incentive. Especially only 5 ilvls too.

I'm frequently listening to LBR podcast, and they suggested something several times.

The idea would be that each raid could drop a "final ilvl" item. For example, if SE already knows that the final ilvl of Heavensward would be 270, put a super rare i270 item slot in every level of Gordias and Midas. This way, you would have that super rare and powerful gear that will only get replaced once the level cap is increased.

Or maybe put this final ilvl at the entry ilvl on the next level cap. For example, Coil could rarely drop i150 gear. This way, even Creator could offer gear that would only be replaced at the end of 4.0 MSQ.

On top of that, the relic could also be released with all the absurdingly long steps and, instead of adding a new step every other patch, simply nerfing them.

[Yeol]

The more you do easy content, the easier your next content will need to be.

I have raised this issue before and many people seemed to not understand that easy content lead to bad player-base on the long run.

[Watachy]

Snip

Bad player-base is here because of the western mentality.
People don't wanna invest themselves into the game these days.

"glamour si true endgame" has never been so true, when you parse a raid, dungeon or 24man raid you should be affraid.

When someone in your farm party just say "what's an opener ?", and being serious about it, you know that the farm ain't gonna be a farm but a clear/carry one.

As i said in others threads it's actually Thordan Ex that made me into savage and raiding because i litterally loved that fight and i realised i was doing bad/horrible things with my rotations back then.
SE you should put a content where people should realise "am i doing things right ?"

Because you can't say to someone they're doing things wrong these days, if you do so you're immediatly called an elitist idiot that won't let people play "the way they want to".