100M GIL taken

[Bloody]

The promotion system is horribly flawed, Kaedan. The ability to promote beyond your own rank is extremely open to abuse with a negative impact far beyond the moderate gains it gave to FCs that have disappearing masters. Years of work permanently lost versus a month at most of inconvenience (which a smart master would mitigate the majority of by having trusted officers able to utilize the majority of abilities anyway).

In regards to the current absentee system not being enough in case of disappearing masters, that may be true, but unless it is physically impossible for them to log in and pass off leadership (or have it done via proxy if they are in the hospital, for example), there are speedier ways to make change, and the absentee system is much less open to exploitation than unlimited promotion privileges. Your logic appears to put short-term personal/small group gain as superior to the long-term health of the whole community of FCs, and that view is a bit too myopic for my tastes.

[Lone-wolfe-02]

1) Not flawed, as I have explained. You can 100% opt out of the feature with no risk to your FC.

2) That's not sufficient. Even if they reduced it to a week or two without logging in, that's still too long a wait for a serious FC. And if you made it shorter than that, then there wouldn't be a point to there being an FC leader at all since the leader would change constantly.

It is flawed, the fact that it can be abused so easily shows that.

How long would it take for an fc to realise the leader isn't coming back? I imagine a month itself is when people would start questioning.

[Nixxe]

Trolling encompasses a lot of things. Being inflammatory (which is what saying "you're wrong" and not justifying your statement is) is one aspect of trolling.

No, it's not. Trolling requires deliberately inciting conflict. While it's not conducive to constructive conversation, simply failing to justify your remarks is not trolling by any sensible definition of the word. If you wish to apply some version that is watered down to the point of meaninglessness, I certainly can't stop you, but it's not a reasonable application of the word and not something that should be taken the least bit seriously by anyone. By conflating actual trolling with merely being unproductive or, worse still, your personal pet peeves, you yourself are being harmful to good conversation by slandering the person you're talking to and risking derailing the conversation into inane personal attacks.

[Lone-wolfe-02]

Trolling encompasses a lot of things. Being inflammatory (which is what saying "you're wrong" and not justifying your statement is) is one aspect of trolling.

It really does sound like you're upset people are disagreeing with you and so you just start using the troll excuse.

[Kaedan]

The promotion system is horribly flawed, Kaedan. The ability to promote beyond your own rank is extremely open to abuse with a negative impact far beyond the moderate gains it gave to FCs that have disappearing masters. Years of work permanently lost versus a month at most of inconvenience (which a smart master would mitigate the majority of by having trusted officers able to utilize the majority of abilities anyway).

In regards to the current absentee system not being enough in case of disappearing masters, that may be true, but unless it is physically impossible for them to log in and pass off leadership (or have it done via proxy if they are in the hospital, for example), there are speedier ways to make change, and the absentee system is much less open to exploitation than unlimited promotion privileges. Your logic appears to put short-term personal/small group gain as superior to the long-term health of the whole community of FCs, and that view is a bit too myopic for my tastes.

Finally, a reasonably polite and thoughtful response, even if I don't agree.

The fact that an FC can 100% opt out of the feature makes your argument rather moot. There is no potential for negative impact if the FC leader has a modicum of caution and care.

The one thing I could agree to change would be to make what the feature can do be a bit more visible and/or have two different promote options: one that only allows promotion up to your current rank, and then keep the current one.

[Thaelin_AnCrach]

And as a second point, any well designed, active office corp can run an FC without the actual owner needing to be present for... anything. They could be jerking off in a corner while online for all it mattered. If given good tools, a leader can make any guild or FC in any MMO completely autonomous. FF is the only one to date I have ever, EVER heard of having a promotion system where you can alter your OWN RANK. The reasoning is so short-sighted it's baffling. I would expect something like this from an indie developer who might not have played an MMO before in their entire lives, not a AAA developer.

It makes no sense. It's not helpful- and as you can see, if you let people abuse one another, they will do it. Everyone has known this for years online. There's no accountability, no repercussions, no punishment. You can harm other people, cause them severe emotional grief over their months of work and achievements being stripped away and nothing will happen to the perpetrator.

[Thaelin_AnCrach]

The fact that an FC can 100% opt out of the feature makes your argument rather moot.

The one thing I could agree to change would be to make what the feature can do be a bit more visible and/or have two different promote options: one that only allows promotion up to your current rank, and then keep the current one.

You don't seem aware that this tool is completely backwards in its logic, and no one- NO ONE- would assume it works that without doing excessive research prior to allowing someone to have it. It's like seeing the same sign for one-way streets, year after year, even though different companies made them; but they all mean the same thing, all act the same.

Then Square comes in, and suddenly their one-way sign means two-way. But no one is going to know that until there's another car coming.

[Shaemus_Jodocus]

I think if someone blatantly does something to someone else that person should be punished and the victim should be restored. we discussed helping the FC with keeping buffs up. I was approached by the person who told me that. i said ok and they then 2 hours later when i logged off promoted them self and did things we didn't agree to such as steal my 100m from the gil section when officer clearly didn't have permision to do that. Seems to me just in the agreement we had and her breaking it they should has assisted me and punished her. Instead I was punished and that to me is not good business practice. i'm rebuilding with help. thanks to my friends you know who you are.

also the only thing they did not take was my actual house because the system at least stopped them from promoting them self to the actual master on it to relinquish thankfully for that. Promote / demote should be Master only too? That would have saved me my Gil and Airships. I still could have lost all items in chest other than gil and they could have trashed my housing item but hey that's fine I would have had 100M gil still plus my excitement for the update coming for new diadem. The gil isn't so bad as the Airship and technology upgrade board was. Ill show pics of my house when im done fixing to thank the ones who have supported me.

[Thaelin_AnCrach]

And I'm so sorry that happened, Shaemus. In fact, reading this thread to hear the story I had to stop and ask some folks in a Discord, "Wait, you can promote yourself? That's not how it works, does it?"

That is how ridiculous the tool is. Coming from someone who has played MMO's for well over a decade, that's just stupid. The very small, very slight benefits it could have in the almost nonexistent situations Kaedan has mentioned do not even tip the scales against the risks.

[Thaelin_AnCrach]

If MMO's worked hard towards having a more community-based system regarding issues- be it someone disappearing, or abuse- they would be a golden example for the industry. It might take work but with social media, it's possible we could try to change the game for the better. The best ways to prevent abuse of any system is democratically. Now, I'm not saying that's the PERFECT way, for no system is perfect, but it's better than having strict rules that people can simply circumvent.

The person who robbed Shaemus should have their SE accounts terminated immediately. No warning. Their actions are irredeemable. That, I think everyone could agree towards.