100M GIL taken

[Nyerieri]

I did find it scary that this still isnt fixed.. Has anyone tried posting this on the tech support area?
Cause I learned that one could still promote to the leader rank and take over the FC for example. Bad enough they could rank someone up to higher ranks with more permissions.

You have no clue how housing works do you? Just posting random stuff that is not true. You would be wise to stick to topics you are 100% sure about, because it adds nothing to the topic if you are 100% wrong.

[Canadane]

It wouldn't do much good, as it's not considered broken. Don't fix what isn't broken, as they say.

[Nyerieri]

Don't understand why every reply after mine is "we're going to take the side road and not discuss the original OPs comment. It is 100% his mistake for promoting someone that high when that permission (or any, really) can be given to any rank. There is no way of defending that truth, try as you may though. If you really do not know how FC's work, you should, you know, maybe read google or these forums on how to set permissions after all, this is only the 100th topic on this issue.

If you wan't to talk about promotion/demotion should get fixed, this is not the topic for that. Make one under housing and maybe you will get a response from SE. I personally agree it should be fixed, but this is not the topic for that.

[Valenth]

Guys, you're starting to argue points besides the point.

It would have been handy if it mentioned up-front that the promotion/demotion priviledge actually allows someone to promote/demote someone else to any (<= keyword) rank besides 'owner' within a Free Company. I only found out and adjusted accordingly a little while ago thanks to this thread. I was assuming the 3rd ranking rank in my FC wouldn't be able to promote someone to the 2nd ranking one that has actual access rights to the FC gil, rare mats tab and major house decorating/demolishing. Judging by the many responses in this thread most people seem to think this is indeed a weird, unorthodox and unexpected system regardless if it's intended or what not. It clearly deviates from the common expectations of how ranks in guilds work while not explicitely mentioning so in the actual game. A post by a dev answering a question about it in a live letter or on the forums is not enough safe-guard against this. Especially not if you consider the immediate repurcussions it can have. This information should definitely not be located anywhere else but directly in the game, maybe in the form of a tooltip, itself. Heck, the different layers are even called 'ranks' in-game suggesting some form of hierarchy of importance and responsibility within a FC only adding to the suggestion.

I think we can all agree, regardless of who's to blame in the OP's case (the thread shifted away from that anyhow), this system needs AT LEAST some clear prompt or indication in-game about what exactly the promotion/demotion priviledge does before you assign it. I would rather they just make it impossible all together to promote someone above one's own rank or demote someone above one's own to below. However, if FFXIV's devs are truly adamant about keeping the *ahum* feature, then the least they can do is provide ample warning directly, not behind google or forum searches (or make it optional). In green/red/allcoloursofthefrigginrainbow. With comfirmation window. Asking *10 if you're really sure Yoko Taro style. And then wait 10 days before taking affect. Etc, etc, etc... you get the idea...

Edit (to stay a bit on-topic more): Could the OP have looked up the information? Probably. Can we expect him to not have in a world where similar systems in other MMOs with the workings most of us expect is so incredibly abundant? Definitely! Don't be a douche guys, the OP deserves sympathy. He made a small but very understandable misstep that had giant repurcussions for his gaming experience, all while the chocoboherder who did this to him is still out there. Shall we maybe focus a bit less on bashing the OP nor argue for principle/argument/symantic's sake? As I mentioned a while ago in the thread I'm sorry for what happened to you OP. I really hope things will land on their feet. And for what it's worth, you may have prevented a similar thing from happening in my FC for which I'm very grateful.

[joshdavis271]

The point here is FIX the dang Promotion and Demotion! No one should be able to promote people on or above their rank, and under no circumstances you shopuld not be able to promote yourself. SE please fix this problem so dumb threads like this quit cropping up!

[LineageRazor]

I think the major misunderstanding when it comes to FC ranks is this:

THERE IS NO HEIRARCHY.

All ranks are equal. Giving one more permissions than others does not make it a "higher" rank. The order that ranks appear in in your list does not indicate higher or lower, either. This is the mistake that folks make when they set their FC permissions, and I don't know how clear the game makes this fact.

The ranking system is built for extreme flexibility. If you want, you can create a specific rank that can plant and harvest, but can't adjust furnishings, and call it "Gardener". You can create a rank that does nothing but let a player mess with furnishings and call it "Interior Decorator". You can make a "Treasurer" rank who can handle the FC gil, but can't touch the garden or adjust furnishings. Whatever crazy ranks you want to implement, the sky's the limit! Once you understand that, the fact that there's no hierarchy becomes a bit clearer. After all, which would be considered "higher rank"? Gardener, Decorator, or Treasurer? They're all just jobs.

Most players, though, intuitively implement a ranking system that gives more permissions to higher-ranked individuals, rather than create niche ranks for different activities. After creating this tiered ranking system, they assume that the "Promote" command will only allow promotion up to a specific rank - but the problem is that there is no "up". Promote allows you to assign any rank to any individual, because all ranks are at the same level, regardless of the permissions they grant.

Is there a way to fix this? Honestly, the best way would be to implement what folks are asking for: enforce the ranking hierarchy that is implied. Almost none of the "freedom" is lost by this; all you need to do is make sure that the ranks you choose to have the "Promote" ability are in the top slots of the hierarchy. Since Promotion is the ONLY ability that cares about hierarchy at all, you're then completely free to craft whatever odd rank types you like, in any order that you like, below the ranks that have Promotion. I don't know how easy this is for devs to implement, however, or whether they even care. For now, the best we can do is try to keep folks informed, make sure that they understand how powerful the Promote command is.

[Nyerieri]

I think the major misunderstanding when it comes to FC ranks is this:

THERE IS NO HEIRARCHY.

All ranks are equal. Giving one more permissions than others does not make it a "higher" rank. The order that ranks appear in in your list does not indicate higher or lower, either. This is the mistake that folks make when they set their FC permissions, and I don't know how clear the game makes this fact.

The ranking system is built for extreme flexibility. If you want, you can create a specific rank that can plant and harvest, but can't adjust furnishings, and call it "Gardener". You can create a rank that does nothing but let a player mess with furnishings and call it "Interior Decorator". You can make a "Treasurer" rank who can handle the FC gil, but can't touch the garden or adjust furnishings. Whatever crazy ranks you want to implement, the sky's the limit! Once you understand that, the fact that there's no hierarchy becomes a bit clearer. After all, which would be considered "higher rank"? Gardener, Decorator, or Treasurer? They're all just jobs.

Most players, though, intuitively implement a ranking system that gives more permissions to higher-ranked individuals, rather than create niche ranks for different activities. After creating this tiered ranking system, they assume that the "Promote" command will only allow promotion up to a specific rank - but the problem is that there is no "up". Promote allows you to assign any rank to any individual, because all ranks are at the same level, regardless of the permissions they grant.

Is there a way to fix this? Honestly, the best way would be to implement what folks are asking for: enforce the ranking hierarchy that is implied. Almost none of the "freedom" is lost by this; all you need to do is make sure that the ranks you choose to have the "Promote" ability are in the top slots of the hierarchy. Since Promotion is the ONLY ability that cares about hierarchy at all, you're then completely free to craft whatever odd rank types you like, in any order that you like, below the ranks that have Promotion. I don't know how easy this is for devs to implement, however, or whether they even care. For now, the best we can do is try to keep folks informed, make sure that they understand how powerful the Promote command is.

I hope your post actually helps the majority on this thread actually understand what I've been saying this entire time, but with a lot less words. I sincerely mean it is the best response to this topic to date!

[Senn]

I hope your post actually helps the majority on this thread actually understand what I've been saying this entire time, but with a lot less words. I sincerely mean it is the best response to this topic to date!

The people you're responding to seem to understand how the system works, and they want it changed. Even the person you quoted acknowledges people are requesting for a change in how ranking is currently enforced;

Is there a way to fix this? Honestly, the best way would be to implement what folks are asking for: enforce the ranking hierarchy that is implied.

I hope this post actually helps Nyerieri actually understand what everyone has been saying this entire time, and I did it in a lot less words so Nyerieri can understand. I sincerely mean it!

[Nyerieri]

People understand how the system works, and they want it changed. Even the person you quoted acknowledges people are requesting for a change in how ranking is currently enforced;



I hope this post actually helps Nyerieri actually understand what everyone has been saying this entire time, and I did it in a lot less words so Nyerieri can understand. I sincerely mean it!

I hope this post of mine helps remind everyone that you should go make another topic "Promotion/Demotion needs reworked" and try to get an official response from SE (instead of cramming it in this thread that is titled "100m gil taken (((but I gave them the promote/demote permission not knowing how it works, and the person promoted themselves up and took the gil. Please add a confirmation box for every single permission in the FC making me acknowledge I know how this works, since I can't be bothered to look up how a permission works on a multitude of websites!))) ). Quite a few said they were going to start one but I'm still waiting! Here is your daily reminder!

[Senn]

I hope this post of mine helps remind everyone that you should go make another topic "Promotion/Demotion needs reworked"

But I don't care about the rankings personally. I just saw you getting triggered and being willfully ignorant about what people were actually requesting.