The only real way to solve DPS queues

[Altena]

/sigh.

You want to split up dps in to sub categories you should with healers and tanks as well. SCH and WHM heal in dramatically different ways which is why the existing meta is based around having a mitigation healer and a throughput healer. Its also why the balance in healing is shot, because AST tries to be both plus extra so its either superior or inferior but never on par.


BRD plays more like a BLM than WHM plays like SCH.

If we apply the same sub categorising to tanks it means that WAR is currently the only damage output focused tank in the game.

Except they're not. As much flavour as you want to put on it, they are inherently healers that are both casters, working toward the same goal with the same sort of playstyle sprinkled with a little bit of their own flavour. Same story with AST.

The difference between a caster and a melee is a far wider gap than that of a SCH and a WHM. The comparison to these is closer to the comparison of a SMN or BLM... Or a DRG and MNK.. Yes they play rather differently due to flavour, however on the base level they are very much the same - achieve similar results with different skills? Sure - but that is called Flavour..

The difference between a DRG and a BLM however is on a completely different scale. One is a caster and one is a melee. They serve very different roles in a party comp. Yes they both focus on DPS but they do it in a manner in which is completely different.

Main stats alone should indicate how different the classes are intended to be.

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I am a tank main. However I enjoy playing DPS classes as well.

I avoid casters and ranged like the plague. I can't stand casters in this game. Ranged are on a similar page with me.
Melee on the other hand are a different story and I enjoy playing most melee classes.

We are sorely lacking in caster variety (currently 2, compared to Tank's 3 and healer's 3).
We are also sorely lacking in Melee DPS (DRG, MNK = 2) that is not heavily support based (NIN).

We have not had a new single heavy melee DPS class since the launch of 1.19 (Job patch).
We have not had a single caster DPS since the launch of 2.0 (ACN was launched along with SMN).

These classes needed their turn.

Tanks and Healers just got new classes. Wait your turn.

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However this thread was not created to be hijacked into a Tank and Healer salt factory.

This thread was created to improve the queue times for DPS players - who like it or not have suffered longer DPS queue times than the privelaged and entiteld Tank-only / Healer-only players. (Yes I am also a Tank player, as are many players who are also DPS players, and also Healer players, and all of which also experience long queue times).

This is a multi-class game. The Tank and Healer only players need to stop crying over this because quite honestly you have already had your privelages since launch, and all the way through Heavensward. I am sorry if you didn't get a 1-up over Melee DPS or Caster DPS players this time round..

[Senn]

I think running an 8-man dungeon for a change would be interesting.

[mosaicex]

I think running an 8-man dungeon for a change would be interesting.

Just like Praetorium and Castrum, fan's favorites huh?

[Senn]

Just like Praetorium and Castrum, fan's favorites huh?

Nnnnnooooooooooooooooooononono... Our 4-man dungeons we currently have are pretty cool. If they do 8-man, they should give us dungeons that are aestheticaly pleasing. Not Praetorium or Castrum. It's all metallic and eh. Give us a forest/jungle or something. That and they shouldn't make it super long.

[Brian_]

I think this topic ignores a key question that challenges the idea --

If you change the light party set-up to 1 tank, 1 healer, and 3 DPS and even out the queue-times a bit, how many additional tanks and healers will you lose due to faster queues no longer being an incentive to queue on those jobs?

Because a lot of players I know would abandon queuing as a tank or healer in a heartbeat if the DPS queue was reasonable.

[Altena]

I think this topic ignores a key question that challenges the idea --

If you change the light party set-up to 1 tank, 1 healer, and 3 DPS and even out the queue-times a bit, how many additional tanks and healers will you lose due to faster queues no longer being an incentive to queue on those jobs?

Because a lot of players I know would abandon queuing as a tank or healer in a heartbeat if the DPS queue was reasonable.

It's a possibility.

However is it not worth the shot? I mean SE cannot control the community - however they can control the supply in terms of the number of slots in a duty.




This is the 2016 census on distribution between Tank/Healer/DPS.. It shows that there is generally a rough 1:1:3 ratio of players who main Tank/Healer/DPS.

It would at least be a step in the right direction if the party composition reflected this a bit closer than it currently does - and if they were to overbalance the queues to 1:1:4, this would potentially account for those people that wish to jump ship and queue as a DPS.

You do raise a fairly valid point however so I won't discount it.. On the flip side of this, the current system isn't working and this is honestly the most effective solution I can think of from the top of my head.

[LalaRu]

About the topic of DF queue, it makes more sense to see the distribution of queue roles than the active characters.

I have all three roles on 60 and geared, it makes for 1/3 each, but if I queue just with tank I always instapop, healer wait a little, and dps goes to the 5-30 min wait time.

So my guess is, the roles into the DF queue aren't that distribution or else everyone have almost instapop. My guess on the people really queued on DF is 10-15% healers and 85-90% dps, with tanks that instapop when entering DF so they are not in queue.

Edit:
Another suggestion: some duties really no need a tank, maybe them can be done also with 1 heal and 3 dps when no tanks avail, that will ease the queue and the added +50% dps will make up for people being hit and the pressure on healer, if any.

[Altena]

About the topic of DF queue, it makes more sense to see the distribution of queue roles than the active characters.

I have all three roles on 60 and geared, it makes for 1/3 each, but if I queue just with tank I always instapop, healer wait a little, and dps goes to the 5-30 min wait time.


So my guess is, the roles into the DF queue aren't that distribution or else everyone have almost instapop. My guess on the people really queued on DF is 10-15% healers and 85-90% dps, with tanks that instapop when entering DF so they are not in queue.

You are likely right. I am never really sure how they figure out role distribution for the census in a multi-class armory system like this game.

I only brought up the census as a very loose example. The "main job" or highest iLvl on each player's account is likely skewed a bit, however it's the closest thing we have to go by.

As for DPS queue times, I generally experience 10 mins or less for levelling, and about the same for end game dungeons if I queue as a DPS during peak times. It's often closer to 20 mins on off-peak times. Unique trials and content that is less common really just varies too much to go by - on top of this the adjustment to party composition (increasing number of DPS slots) would only work for currently 4-man based content (ie. Dungeons).

I am not sure if it's just my data centre but queue times for DPS in my opinion aren't completely unbearable from a personal opinion - however people like to complain about them and they are definitely longer than Tank / Healer.. I guess I am just trying to suggest an adjustment to this to hopefully improve those queues for those that have issues with the wait.

Edit:
Another suggestion: some duties really no need a tank, maybe them can be done also with 1 heal and 3 dps when no tanks avail, that will ease the queue and the added +50% dps will make up for people being hit and the pressure on healer, if any.

I am not against this but generally those duties are extremely low level and it doesn't matter what party comp you go in with. However I can imagine the argument coming up that it would cause a reasonable amount of stress for new healers to deal with 3 DPS and no tank in those dungeons..

While it may be quite easy to do for most of us, someone who is brand new at the game and is in that stage of levelling may not truly be able to pull that off.

I am in same view. When queued with dps I usually do other things in the while (as example, leveling the DoH) so the wait time does not bother much. The only problem is that 30s you have to go somewhere else and you are withdraw the moment you go back the game. Murphy's watching you.

I am replying here because I am dangerously close to my daily limit...

I am levelling a bunch of jobs at the moment to be all sorted for SB.. I can absolutely relate to this comment :P

As a smoker, the moment I step onto my balcony to light a cigarette, the queue inevitably pops..

[LalaRu]

... queue times for DPS in my opinion aren't completely unbearable ...

I am in same view. When queued with dps I usually do other things in the while (as example, leveling the DoH) so the wait time does not bother much. The only problem is that 30s you have to go somewhere else and you are withdraw the moment you go back the game. Murphy's watching you.

[Astyrah]

The only problem is that 30s you have to go somewhere else and you are withdraw the moment you go back the game. Murphy's watching you.

for me, this is true for any job role. queue (as healer or dps) for something in RF, no pop in 5 to 10+minutes, so you go to the fridge to grab a drink, and when you come back ingame you just missed the queue. lol