Zurvan, Soar, and the Community!

[Atoli]

People just refuse to learn their rotation, that is all.
The opener is SO easy to learn and saying "but we SHOULD be able to do soar!" is absolutely NO excuse to not know how to do it, because a having low dps means having to do the second soar /the tank buster. It's ridiculous. You'd expect people to know how to play their job if they declare they can farm it. The utter refusal to learn something extremely easy to make the run failproof just baffles me.

Bad trolling there.
Standing in one pre-assigned place for 5 seconds is not the same level of difficulty as doing a correct lvl 60 rotation.
Also, even if all the dps do perfect dmg, if the tank doesn't keep aggro well or whatever, you end up with dead people who deal no dmg and will end up having to do soar anyways.
Relying on dps only is NEVER a failsafe strategy, it's the "let's rush and hope nothing goes wrong because we are f*cked otherwise" strategy.
If everyone knows how to do mechanics AND the dps is great, everything is fine.
If everyone only knows how to deal dmg, if anything goes wrong, it's a wipe.
If everyone only knows how to deal with mechanics, even if the dps is not enough, it's still not a wipe because slowly killing it is still killing it.

[Accelerating]

Standing in one pre-assigned place for 5 seconds is not the same level of difficulty as doing a correct lvl 60 rotation.
Also, even if all the dps do perfect dmg, if the tank doesn't keep aggro well or whatever, you end up with dead people who deal no dmg and will end up having to do soar anyways.
Relying on dps only is NEVER a failsafe strategy, it's the "let's rush and hope nothing goes wrong because we are f*cked otherwise" strategy.
If everyone knows how to do mechanics AND the dps is great, everything is fine.
If everyone only knows how to deal dmg, if anything goes wrong, it's a wipe.
If everyone only knows how to deal with mechanics, even if the dps is not enough, it's still not a wipe because slowly killing it is still killing it.

Sure, but those player who understand and play their class properly have no trouble dealing with mechanics like soar. Also if you can't skip soar in a farm party with 6 dps then something is really going wrong.

[Aeliott]

It's unfortunate that they designed this fight with a skip threshold that's easily reached. I mean maybe they didn't factor in 5 dps 1 tank (I know competent groups can still skip with 2 tanks, but I'm generalising :P) but the fact that this threshold exists has made the fight so centralized about it.
I've seen farm groups that can kill it consistently - and still disband because some elitists who were out of position for the "2nd" soar, saved by the tank LB every time, were more concerned about the fact the 1st wasn't skipped than the fact that we just got 3 tokens back to back with no fuss. And speaking of the second Soar, that still exists unless you solo heal successfully, pretty much. Yet it can be somewhat trivialised by tank lb...somewhat.
It really should've been analysed better before they released it. Give more incentive to have a second tank. Make the follow up to Demon Claw break through immunities. Make the adds need to be kept separate to justify a second tank by making them share buffs with nearby enemies or something. Force Soar + Demon Claw to happen at certain % rather than move on without them.

But alas, we have what we have. I don't know if maybe some people get confused with the positional callouts since they aren't directly on those compass points - and as seen above there are several diagrams for this that aren't oriented well. Then again, you often see people call NW and go the complete opposite direction so...who knows. The fixation on Soar and dps is kind of bizarre since meteor tethers should be the biggest worry since a lot of PFs won't really communicate fixed positions or follow a rule like "go clockwise if your pair isn't behind you" or something...everyone just vaguely goes to whatever's closest to them at the time...which is sometimes okay if people spread around the boss beforehand....hrm. I dunno, they really should've designed the fight better, not that it fully justifies the community's response to it.

[Enyalios]

You can't skip soar, you can only skip the FIRST soar.

People still need to know how to do it.

Yeah, that's not true. Kill it under like 6 mins and you'll not see soar at all

[Neophyte]

1. Soar skip with proper gear in't hard. Don't farm an extreme fight with ajob you can't play on a high level.

2. If you go single tank -> soar skip. No ifs or buts. The whole point of not going with 2 tanks is to skip soar.
Sticking to a one tank group without skip doesn't make sense.

[Alkimi]

1. Soar skip with proper gear in't hard. Don't farm an extreme fight with ajob you can't play on a high level.

2. If you go single tank -> soar skip. No ifs or buts. The whole point of not going with 2 tanks is to skip soar.
Sticking to a one tank group without skip doesn't make sense.

But sadly not skipping soar is half the time not really the fault of the dps. It's the PLD sat there in shield oath with minimal damage going out and the 2 healers doing zero dps.

[Jim_Berry]

But sadly not skipping soar is half the time not really the fault of the dps. It's the PLD sat there in shield oath with minimal damage going out and the 2 healers doing zero dps.

Stop it! Please, just stop... You're pointing fingers now. I get what you're saying. I mean, I even drop Shield Oath at times, but as it was noted, you're dropping a tank to add a DPS. THAT is when Soar should be skipped, right? That's how it's been. To NOW state that the Healers and Tank are lacking in the dps is going to take this conversation in a different direction.

I dropped my BRD, DRG, and NIN because I couldn't dps hard. Going as PLD, I do decent dps, but my focus, while still trying to clear Zurvan, is safety, so I have Shield Oath up more times than Sword Oath is up.

People almost always go out of their way once they get their clear. We are still progressing, and will get comfortable maximizing once we get the clear.

[Brian_]

But sadly not skipping soar is half the time not really the fault of the dps. It's the PLD sat there in shield oath with minimal damage going out and the 2 healers doing zero dps.

So I was farming Zurvan a lot over the weekend to finish off my firebird farm. I parsed all the runs.

My DPS on Zurvan is generally in the range of 1700~1900 as a WAR. I was routinely 1-3 in terms of DPS.

I skipped soar only a few times in probably around 30-40 runs. And, this was on a JP data center.

So half the time it's the fault of tanks and healers? Yea. If you want to fault the tanks and healers for not parsing in the 90th percentile while the DPS mail it in at the 10th percentile. From my experiences, under-performing DPS are far more common and far more responsible for not skipping soar.

[CookieMonsta]

Yeah, that's not true. Kill it under like 6 mins and you'll not see soar at all

The whole killing it before 6 minutes is monumentally harder than skipping first soar. Skipping the first one requires a brain and a knowledge of how to opener. Skipping the 2nd one actually requires solid mechanics, good uptime and knowledge of how to maintain decent DPS over a long period of time while doing the above. This is the reason why its stupid to go full ham on skipping first soar then wiping to the 2nd one.

[Enyalios]

The whole killing it before 6 minutes is monumentally harder than skipping first soar. Skipping the first one requires a brain and a knowledge of how to opener. Skipping the 2nd one actually requires solid mechanics, good uptime and knowledge of how to maintain decent DPS over a long period of time while doing the above. This is the reason why its stupid to go full ham on skipping first soar then wiping to the 2nd one.

That's not what I said. I simply said that you CAN skip the second soar and their statement was false