People need to get real about Duty Finder queues.

[bswpayton]

The issue will always be that people don't want responsibility in a group setting. That's why they gravitate away from tanks and healers. There's no fixing that.

this is so true dragon 100 percent

[AutoWhit]

Hence the "no one ever calls them out on it" part of what you quoted.

My point is there are ways to "help," or try to help, someone that may not be performing up to par. Just telling someone "my parser shows you're only doing 100 dps....do better" doesn't help anything.....and everybody here knows that if parsers were ever allowed "officially" that is exactly what would happen.

edit: you can call someone out and not have to say anything about using a parser

[Nixxe]

I heal. It doesn't bother me and I don't feel like anyone expects too much out of me in a dungeon as long as I don't let us wipe. I also seem to be able to get away without knowing 90% of the mechanics based on the explanations groups give me (or don't give me) and the fact that it goes fine. Tanking is a bit different and I tank frequently while leveling, but usually stop as soon as I hit level cap, simply because tanking level cap dungeons seems to be about pulling 6,000,000 mobs so we can gogogo (and I don't blame anyone for that, nobody wants to do Xelphatol the 30th time), but I don't really feel like I know the dungeons well enough or have enough of an ability to gauge both myself and the healer's ability to pull tons of mobs to do that. Not wishing to hold people up, I just don't tank.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

My point is there are ways to "help," or try to help, someone that may not be performing up to par. Just telling someone "my parser shows you're only doing 100 dps....do better" doesn't help anything.....and everybody here knows that if parsers were ever allowed "officially" that is exactly what would happen.

Someone at 60 doing one 100 dps has more problems than an inefficient rotation. Auto attack is worth about 300 dps with no cds, buffs, or party effects, not even heavy thrust up. If a drg is doing less than that, at lvl 60, in an expert roulette, then they simply dont care to do better.

Just heavy thrust and auto attack, and nothing else, is 460.

[ADVSS]

I love tanking trials, but am not so grand on dungeons. I can hold hate fine, but as a tank i never feel like im making enough difference, cant last 10s without a healer(or a netflix healer forgetting to heal me) and generally. I havent gotten the complaints verbally but i totally feel the not fast enough, too fast, not in right stance, etc. I did actually feel powerful back in the str tank days, but lost interest after the fix. I'm not a career tank, but i did main pld first, then went back before HW for DRK. I run mostly SMN even taking the queue time penalty because its just so much less stressful to run dungeons with.

[ToasterMan]

Someone at 60 doing one 100 dps has more problems than an inefficient rotation. Auto attack is worth about 300 dps with no cds, buffs, or party effects, not even heavy thrust up. If a drg is doing less than that, at lvl 60, in an expert roulette, then they simply dont care to do better.

Be honest with me here. How many times have you actually seen that? I've never seen anyone that bad in all of my time playing this game.

[ChandraNoctis]

I alternate dps and healing roles periodically. I like to tank but I don't tank in df because I am rather dyslexic and tend to go the wrong direction in dungeons (yes even if they are a straight line - I run the wrong way after an encounter or have issues with moving the boss the right spot (when it is backwards for me vs the party)).

It's embarrassing and most players are jerks about it even if it just takes a couple extra seconds for me to get oriented (and that is all it takes).
So I don't tank in dungeons or raids in df.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Be honest with me here. How many times have you actually seen that? I've never seen anyone that bad in all of my time playing this game.

I've seen it on an infrequent basis. but rarely do I get melee dps in dungeons at 60 who go over 1000 dps. I've seen some drgs who's openers put them at 1200, where I can hit over 3k, and im not the best geared.

I had a drg in a sephirot farm do nothing but spam 123. that was it.

Had a bard, 2 blms and a nin in void ark under 600. I dont usually parse dungeons, but thats due to being sad when i do.

[ChandraNoctis]

Someone at 60 doing one 100 dps has more problems than an inefficient rotation. Auto attack is worth about 300 dps with no cds, buffs, or party effects, not even heavy thrust up. If a drg is doing less than that, at lvl 60, in an expert roulette, then they simply dont care to do better.

Just heavy thrust and auto attack, and nothing else, is 460.

If someone does this badly they are likely watching shows and not paying attention or talking in discord or fc chat at the same time.

[Hunky]

You're making it sound as if tanking and healing alone were full-time jobs where something goes on top.

But tanking and healing are like 4-5 button jobs on their own. That adds complexity to the jobs, naturally, but in turn, their DPS combos are a lot less complex than that of a pure DPS. I think it roughly evens out.

They are full-time jobs. You still have to stay on top of aggro and keep an eye out on health bars. When I dps as a white mage, I still keep an eye on my team's health bars to see if I need to start healing again or reapply regen. That's one of the responsibilities of a healer. I never truly stop healing.

I do agree with you though that DPS jobs have more complex rotations. Being able to optimize your rotation to achieve as much dps as you can is a skill that requires practice and effort.

I believe what makes it particularly more difficult for tanks and healers is having to juggle maximum dps output with role responsibilities.