DPS obsession in farm groups

[DreamAngel-Ren]

No one stays til everyone gets their whistle anymore.

I have to disagree because recently I earned my Nidhogg bird (my 6th bird) from a group where everyone got their whistle

[Kosmos992k]

2 things;

1) Welcome to the MOAR DPS raid meta that has infected the entire game. Please look forward to being told you're not efficient enough in sub 50 leveling dungeons, and people laughing if you are not as geared as they are and cannot achieve the same level of damage output as they can - or claim they can if others are not holding them back...
2) Calling people insulting and demeaning names on an official forum is a really foolish thing to do.

P.S. in case it's not clear, I despise the MOAR DPS meta outside of the raiding environment. I don't honestly care what goes on in the raiding environment or community, I am not a raider. But I really don't like the raiding MOAR DPS meta being foisted on non raiders.

That said, if this is a farm group, then I have to assume it's a pre-made or PF, you have to know going in that people want the run over as quickly as possible and will max out DPS for that reason. If you don't like that kind of play style, then as others have said, make your own PF and indicate that you are not min/maxing for DPS and are not trying to be as efficient as you can. Basically, you kind of know going into a farm group that the point is to run the content as many times as possible to farm the drops, that means speed, efficiency and of course maximum DPS.

Many regular posters here know that I am absolutely not a raider (or for that matter, farming EX Trials) and don't like the concept of parsers or an exclusive focus on DPS, but come on, if you are farming drops, you don't slow down to smell the roses - even I know that. If you are going to participate in a farm group, make sure that you set your expectations appropriately and be prepared to adjust to the group.

[dragonseth07]

Welcome to the MOAR DPS raid meta that has infected the entire game.

I'm sorry that the "Play Better" meta is prevalent. The "Play Worse" meta is way more fun.

[OpheliaHeartilly]

I'm sorry that the "Play Better" meta is prevalent. The "Play Worse" meta is way more fun.

Sarcastic response noted. Moar DPS and Playing Better are not synonymous. The PLD that insists on MT-ing everything in sword oath to push out "moar dps" comes to mind. I've seen this so many times. Healers dps less to heal the PLD more, BRD or BLM take aggro and boss gets spun around and melee lose positionals. PLD insists his/her way is better because of his/her dps increase.

[dragonseth07]

Sarcastic response noted. Moar DPS and Playing Better are not synonymous. The PLD that insists on MT-ing everything in sword oath to push out "moar dps" comes to mind. I've seen this so many times. Healers dps less to heal the PLD more, BRD or BLM take aggro and boss gets spun around and melee lose positionals. PLD insists his/her way is better because of his/her dps increase.

The best raid statics in the world use DPS stances after pushing enmity. They do it for a very good reason.

[OpheliaHeartilly]

The best raid statics in the world use DPS stances after pushing enmity. They do it for a very good reason.

It's almost like you completely disregarded everything I said about one person insisting their personal dps gain is more important then everyone else's ability to dps optimally. I think it's fantastic that the best raid groups do stuff like that. I think they should. I don't think average players should expect to be able to do that without any hitches in content that was designed with a more relaxed approach. The OP is right insomuch that if a person wants high DPS speed clears of content then it is incumbent upon THEM to form said group. Not join a group and then complain.

[Ghishlain]

Sarcastic response noted. Moar DPS and Playing Better are not synonymous. The PLD that insists on MT-ing everything in sword oath to push out "moar dps" comes to mind. I've seen this so many times. Healers dps less to heal the PLD more, BRD or BLM take aggro and boss gets spun around and melee lose positionals. PLD insists his/her way is better because of his/her dps increase.

It's sad that there are so many sheep that see pros do certain things and go "I MUST REPLICATE" without understanding WHY certain things are done in certain ways.


Full time Sword Oath MTing PLD is completely possible and the PLD I have in my static for Alex does it for 3/4 of the raid tier (goes DRK for A12s).

I think I'll interject my own comment here regarding "Play Better" meta. The "Play Better" meta normally nets a gain in party DPS, but not necessarily individual DPS. DPS is both a solo statistic and a party-wide statistics and doing certain things in certain ways will net a higher gain in party DPS at a small potential cost of personal DPS.

Also, "Playing Better" will vary from group to group and change dramatically with PuGs too. IE I was running EXDR in 3.4 as MCH and got into Gubal HM. I had a WAR who literally pulled in Deliverance without a NIN and after my Wildfire went off I pulled hate. I guess he was just used to really poor DPS in most EX runs, lol. However, without speaking a word to each other he then changed his opener on the next two bosses so he was in Defiance for initial hate and I adjusted where I put my Quelling Strikes so I wouldn't risk pulling hate and no issues were had even after he made the swap back to Deliverance.

@OP Topic

Everyone is entitled to do what they want. If someone feels a group isn't performing to their expectations, they're allowed to leave, it's not like they're breaking any agreement with you unless you somehow stated "stay for three clears to get a feel" or something to that effect. It's a nuisance that's exacerbated into aggravation if they leave with a toxic comment but your opening post certainly doesn't convey any empathy or understanding on your part either.

[Kosmos992k]

I'm sorry that the "Play Better" meta is prevalent. The "Play Worse" meta is way more fun.

"MOAR DPS" <> "play better" - unless you are a damage dealer.

Read what I wrote instead of picking a single point and trying to score points. For me, the reason I chose to be PLD was not so that I could try to min max my DPS, it was so I could be a defensive wall protecting the party.

Many (if not most) healers play healer not to min/max for DPS, but to heal and keep the party alive.

Those are the roles for a tank and a healer. Damage dealers started playing DD because they like to see big numbers and things dying quickly, they do (or should) focus on min/maxing for optimum DPS.

I'm not suggesting that healers and tanks have nothing to contribute, but let's be honest, it's not their role. In a farm group, as I said, I agree that if you join a farm group, then DPS is expected to be high since that's the point of farming content. Obviously high DPS, = skipped phase(s) = quicker kills = more runs per hour = more drops.

But, that doesn't mean that the "MOAR DPS" meta needs to be shoved down players throats outside of the end-game (including farming groups) environment.

But to address the implication of your post, MOAR DPS isn't "play better" since it can often lead to standing in stupid. "Play worse" has nothing to do with anything I said, nor did what I said translate to or endorse 'playing worse'.

Now, before anyone posts the math that says that by focusing on DPS things die quicker which translates to less incoming damage during the fight, etc.... yeah, I know. So let's all roll damage dealers instead shall we? Oh wait, I don't want to play a damage dealer, I want to tank, or heal.

Your post is a great example of how prevalent "MOAR DPS" has become and how damaging it is. The logical extension of your point is simple, if you focus on your role instead of DPS, you're playing worse - making DPS the only measure of skill or worth in the game. That's pretty crap actually, If I wanted to play a completely mindless button masher focusing on damage rather than my role, I wouldn't be playing this.

[Emstidor]

I think the reason people leave those groups, OP is because there is a perception that if a group DPS is particularly low, it's not because every single member of that group is performing with low dps, but because there is a mix of decent performers and bad performers.

You might still be clearing in the end, but only one thing feels worse than putting all your effort into something while the person next to you does half as well and drags you down, and that's watching them walk away with the weapon/orchestrion roll/mount in the end anyway.

So your group members are saying they'd rather disband than watch that happen.

It may have a little harsh, but the only time I see parties avoid this issue is when they have some variation of "Low performers will be kicked" in the PF AND THEY ACTUALLY ENFORCE IT. Best farm groups of my life.

[DBelmont]

Farms are about efficiency and to have a nice farm, sometimes high enough dps is required to make it enjoyable. With that being said, I can imagine the mindset of someone not wanting to stay in a farm group cause it is too slow. At the same time, that said person can leave and not make it cancerous for those who are fine with it.