Relax savage raid loot restrictions.

[oldcodger]

It's very possible this has been brought up more than once. But I was unable to find a specific thread by using search. I think it's safe to assume SE wants to have as many players involved in raiding as possible. And I think they've done their best to adjust difficulty allowing raiders from both ends of the spectrum to enjoy success. But I also think changing how loot lockouts work could get more people raiding and keep them raiding. I know plenty of people who complain they would like to raid with more than one group. They would like to help out other groups. They would like to join more pf groups. But the main thing that stops them is messing up loot for others. I think this hurts the raiding community and the game. So much learning is possible when a more experienced player joins groups with less experienced players. I'd like to see SE take a serious look at making this system less restrictive when it comes to players who've not yet received loot for completing a raid.

[DrWho2010]

they always unlock the loot later on - closer to 4.0 you'll be able to queue for A9S-A12S regardless of clearing the previous one or not that week and loot on as much gear that you can.

[Welsper59]

Gotta be honest here, the frequency of a player who successfully farms Savage mode stuff being nice enough to deal with learning groups is fairly low. At least, low in the sense that a patient player like that wouldn't already be doing it. If the only incentive for motivation to help is gear for the vet, then patience is likely going to be thin. I don't think that's what you were trying to imply though.

If the learning group is only trying to get Savage mode done for the loot and not to actually learn how to properly clear it, then they were destined to fail from the start. If said group has a problem with the reduced loot (they still get stuff mind you), when faced with either finally beating it or dwelling in failure, then SOL for them.

While reduced/removed loot restrictions isn't a big deal of a thing to ask for at this point in time for Alex Savage, when you try to paint said experienced player as some saint while asking for more loot, it doesn't exactly make your argument stronger. Combine that with said learning group's mentality that I mentioned, and you just have your typical "I want more loot" request under the guise of trying to help others. Again, your objective for more loot availability isn't that big of a deal with where we are with Alex Savage, but your reasoning (fluff) gives off a vibe of desperation and misguided thinking.

they always unlock the loot later on - closer to 4.0 you'll be able to queue for A9S-A12S regardless of clearing the previous one or not that week and loot on as much gear that you can.

Problem solved then.

[aesteval]

they always unlock the loot later on - closer to 4.0 you'll be able to queue for A9S-A12S regardless of clearing the previous one or not that week and loot on as much gear that you can.

It doesn't sound like they're asking for the ability to loot repeatedly for themself. They're asking for a change in how the number of loot chests appear when players who have already cleared for the week join a party to help.

[Welsper59]

It doesn't sound like they're asking for the ability to loot repeatedly for themself. They're asking for a change in how the number of loot chests appear when players who have already cleared for the week join a party to help.

Yeah, but what he said also solves that problem too. Since it's free reign loot at that point, that obviously means said experienced player isn't bound by loot rules that exist currently (nor would the learning group).

[oldcodger]

To clarify, yes I'm talking about loot received by players who've yet to receive any for that specific week's lockout. And I thought about the fact that all restrictions are lifted eventually. But that's way down the road from when raids are released. By that time the pool of raiders is reduced by people taking breaks or playing less. Also, there are usually nerfs and echo added to the raids so the usefulness of info used to clear before those nerfs is reduced. I'm not arguing for the ability to get all the loot I want all the time. The idea is for more skilled/experienced players to be able to help out other groups/pfs without affecting possible drops for those who have not received loot that week. I'm not painting anyone as a saint or assuming the intentions of specific players. There are too many variables with player interactions to address all of that. Even if a complete jackass joins your party to "help", learning can still happen.

[aleph_null]

I think the 0-1-2 chest rules are meant to prevent people from abusing them to gear up an alt raid group. For example if you're guaranteed chests for the uncleared person, even if those who cleared for the week can't loot, a group of 8 can gear up an alt group faster than a normal group. Every week they clear with their first group, then do 8 alt runs with 7 cleared characters and one alt, the alt group gets a total of 16 chests per week (and guaranteed 1 gobcoat/twine/dip per char per week, which is kinda broken for progression?).

I think the only time the 0-1-2 chests rules should go away is when the weekly lockout restriction is lifted.

[oldcodger]

That's interesting, I'd not thought about that possibility. And that would be pretty advantageous. Would assume that's why WOW makes those drops account wide instead of per character. At the same time, that doesn't really affect the specific group of players I'm arguing for. And SE seems to have no problem with those groups selling clears, gear runs, and mounts for large amounts of gil, amassing a fortune. I don't really think one of those is more abusive than the other.

[Aniya_Estlihn]

I don't see a reason why they can't just use the 24man system for 8man raids.
Chests always spawn, but it is limited to one drop per player, per floor, per week. Done and done.

Preventing the gearing up another group really shouldn't matter, and carries and sells happen regardless of this backwards system. Even so, there's no reason for this when they already have a much more fair system in place for another type of raid content in the first place. As it currently stands the 24m system is more fair as the 8m system is one which: discourages new players from running with those who know the content because the players who have cleared; and can potentially teach, are somehow arbitrarily limiting the amount of chests that spawn, or outright removing them altogether.

For me, it makes no sense no matter how one tries to frame it.