Relax savage raid loot restrictions.

[oldcodger]

It's very possible this has been brought up more than once. But I was unable to find a specific thread by using search. I think it's safe to assume SE wants to have as many players involved in raiding as possible. And I think they've done their best to adjust difficulty allowing raiders from both ends of the spectrum to enjoy success. But I also think changing how loot lockouts work could get more people raiding and keep them raiding. I know plenty of people who complain they would like to raid with more than one group. They would like to help out other groups. They would like to join more pf groups. But the main thing that stops them is messing up loot for others. I think this hurts the raiding community and the game. So much learning is possible when a more experienced player joins groups with less experienced players. I'd like to see SE take a serious look at making this system less restrictive when it comes to players who've not yet received loot for completing a raid.

[DrWho2010]

they always unlock the loot later on - closer to 4.0 you'll be able to queue for A9S-A12S regardless of clearing the previous one or not that week and loot on as much gear that you can.

[Welsper59]

Gotta be honest here, the frequency of a player who successfully farms Savage mode stuff being nice enough to deal with learning groups is fairly low. At least, low in the sense that a patient player like that wouldn't already be doing it. If the only incentive for motivation to help is gear for the vet, then patience is likely going to be thin. I don't think that's what you were trying to imply though.

If the learning group is only trying to get Savage mode done for the loot and not to actually learn how to properly clear it, then they were destined to fail from the start. If said group has a problem with the reduced loot (they still get stuff mind you), when faced with either finally beating it or dwelling in failure, then SOL for them.

While reduced/removed loot restrictions isn't a big deal of a thing to ask for at this point in time for Alex Savage, when you try to paint said experienced player as some saint while asking for more loot, it doesn't exactly make your argument stronger. Combine that with said learning group's mentality that I mentioned, and you just have your typical "I want more loot" request under the guise of trying to help others. Again, your objective for more loot availability isn't that big of a deal with where we are with Alex Savage, but your reasoning (fluff) gives off a vibe of desperation and misguided thinking.

they always unlock the loot later on - closer to 4.0 you'll be able to queue for A9S-A12S regardless of clearing the previous one or not that week and loot on as much gear that you can.

Problem solved then.

[aesteval]

they always unlock the loot later on - closer to 4.0 you'll be able to queue for A9S-A12S regardless of clearing the previous one or not that week and loot on as much gear that you can.

It doesn't sound like they're asking for the ability to loot repeatedly for themself. They're asking for a change in how the number of loot chests appear when players who have already cleared for the week join a party to help.

[Welsper59]

It doesn't sound like they're asking for the ability to loot repeatedly for themself. They're asking for a change in how the number of loot chests appear when players who have already cleared for the week join a party to help.

Yeah, but what he said also solves that problem too. Since it's free reign loot at that point, that obviously means said experienced player isn't bound by loot rules that exist currently (nor would the learning group).

[oldcodger]

To clarify, yes I'm talking about loot received by players who've yet to receive any for that specific week's lockout. And I thought about the fact that all restrictions are lifted eventually. But that's way down the road from when raids are released. By that time the pool of raiders is reduced by people taking breaks or playing less. Also, there are usually nerfs and echo added to the raids so the usefulness of info used to clear before those nerfs is reduced. I'm not arguing for the ability to get all the loot I want all the time. The idea is for more skilled/experienced players to be able to help out other groups/pfs without affecting possible drops for those who have not received loot that week. I'm not painting anyone as a saint or assuming the intentions of specific players. There are too many variables with player interactions to address all of that. Even if a complete jackass joins your party to "help", learning can still happen.

[aleph_null]

I think the 0-1-2 chest rules are meant to prevent people from abusing them to gear up an alt raid group. For example if you're guaranteed chests for the uncleared person, even if those who cleared for the week can't loot, a group of 8 can gear up an alt group faster than a normal group. Every week they clear with their first group, then do 8 alt runs with 7 cleared characters and one alt, the alt group gets a total of 16 chests per week (and guaranteed 1 gobcoat/twine/dip per char per week, which is kinda broken for progression?).

I think the only time the 0-1-2 chests rules should go away is when the weekly lockout restriction is lifted.

[oldcodger]

That's interesting, I'd not thought about that possibility. And that would be pretty advantageous. Would assume that's why WOW makes those drops account wide instead of per character. At the same time, that doesn't really affect the specific group of players I'm arguing for. And SE seems to have no problem with those groups selling clears, gear runs, and mounts for large amounts of gil, amassing a fortune. I don't really think one of those is more abusive than the other.

[Cetonis]

The loot lockout system was quietly a very large part of the reason there was that big exodus from small servers during Gordias and trickling into Midas. There wasn't really a lack of clear-capable players (at least not at launch); but with subbing across groups actively penalized, it was hard for groups to get subs when needed, or to even temporarily replace weak links or leavers. Static attrition was an impossible battle to win on servers with no pug scene.

The cross-server PF should help with the sub problem moving forward, so I'd tend to believe that the loot lockout isn't the kind of dire problem it once was. But yeah it does make it tough to try raids on alt classes, or to just help a weekly clear group because fights are fun, or to get practice or whatever.

The system in place is an artifact of wanting Binding Coil to feel like "one dungeon" with "checkpoints", and ought to be given a fresh look on that basis alone. Even if ultimately they just keep the lockout but maybe change the bars to 3 and 6 players instead of 1 and 5.

[aleph_null]

It would matter a lot for groups aiming for world first, especially if they take more than 1-2 weeks to clear. Sure some top raid groups already do alt raids to help with progression if a different job is required (elysium's world first a8s clear group switched drg for mnk for a7s-a8s), but currently they'd still get 2 chests (1 gobcoat/twine/dip) per group per week, while if you remove the 0-1-2 chests rules like I explained before, they can gear up the second group many times as fast as a normal group (1 gobcoat/twine/dip + 8 gears per person per week from a9s-a12s). In terms of gearing speed this matters to everyone trying to reach max ilv BiS sets. The only time when this stops to matter is when almost everyone can "farm" those loots (i.e. when the weekly lockout restriction is lifted.

Edit: I'm not even talking about content sellers, I'm talking about progression raiders being able to gear their alts up to 8 times as fast as a normal group.