Kicked from DR Leveling because I don't slot Protect for low level dungeons?

[Neophyte]

One person asked me and I typed clerics whilst auto running. That was the end of the discussion no moaning, no winging nothing. Had it been something that I was asked often, then I would create a macro and still be pressing it whilst auto running. Stop over reacting and to be honest I and many other higher levels would gladly accept a kick from Sastasha.

Are you playing the same game as me? When does a pull go wrong in Sastasha?

This. All I'm hoping for is that after kicking me they get at least 2-3 other healers which refuse to switch protect in, so they may finally learn that they are wrong.

Funny Thing is, if they actually tried, they'd notice (while waiting for replacement) that you don't need a healer at all for those dungeons (especially if you carry max pots [~100 gil/piece] which gives every class a 1:07m (buffed) Equilibrium [~30% HP, capped at 2400, which is more than 30% of your HP up to until level 55(?), i.e. 8000 HP] ).
But well, I know those players, they won't move an inch, because waiting 5 mins and doing nothing is better than killing a few things in that time.

AS said, just kick me, I prefer higher dungeons like Dzemael or Aurum Vale (or even some of the HW leveling dungeons) much more anyway (or just get a 2 min primal fight, that's fine, too). In Aurum Vale i got holy at least.

But it's sad how totally uninformed and often also underperforming players try to entrench absolutly not sophisticated tactics, because of "reasons". If you don't get it, just stay silent and just get through the baby dungeon you're in. If you have an dpsing healer in Sastasha there is a 99% chance that this person neither need nor want your "advice", because (most of the times) it's some non-sense BS anyway.

[Azper]

If you have an dpsing healer in Sastasha there is a 99% chance that this person neither need nor want your "advice", because (most of the times) it's some non-sense BS anyway.

And most of the time we're out dpsing the actual dps anyway. >.>

[Immut]

A healer who lets the tank drop to 10% or 20% before healing will "maybe" get more of the "maybe two extra hits", but that leads to a separate discussion of "How low should a healer let the tank's HP drop before healing," outside the scope of these maths.

1. The answer is 1. Anything higher is overhealing. If it's a dark knight, 0.

[Nicobo]

Most newbies don't know AST/SCH need crossclass Pro, switching is faster then explaining and refusing.
I would just save my breath and switch to Pro first if party members are more comfortable with the icon! ^^;

[Magic-Mal]

A CNJ with cross-class skills has by far the most powerful healer DPS in the low levels. But weaker heals I think. A CNJ with Cleric Stance + Raging Strikes + Blood For Blood + Internal Release is a total aggro-stealer it's so strong. Alot stronger than actual DPS. To say it wouldn't make the dungeon faster is pure sillyness. I've CNJ-DPS'd many times. It's OP.

Lv50+ healers with Mind-only gear absolutely benefit from Cleric Stance in Lv15-20 dungeons. They have no INT!! So the difference is huge. The only time it isn't huge is for lv15-20 CNJ and even then it's big.

Also for Copperbell, Cleric Stance and Blizzard II would be my way to go(depending on Tank). If the tank does large pulls, Blizzard II + CS(55 potency) on in a 6 enemy pull is alot of DPS. 330 potency every Blizzard II. That is significantly more DPS any actual DPS besides a BLM can pull off at that level with Fire II.

Healer DPS is actually verrrry powerful in lv15-20 dungeons.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

It doesn't matter that you were right or not. Take this experience as a lesson for the game (and life), so you won't get dismiss later. I'm sorry that my words aren't sympathetic to your post. And based on your respond, i don't think these words could reach you. So hey!!! I'll just /shug and work on my anima

Yet you are way over reacting, this is the first time I have seen/heard of this happening in years. Even if this was an issue I would continue and take the kick,I would rather let them get sick of wait times. Just because a majority decide something in a party doesn't mean it is right. It's this stupid mentality of certain DPS or majority in party that decide to jump ahead and pull for new tanks just because they think it's easier, which 9/10 causes errors or deaths.

Tank tanks the dungeon and keeps hate = jobs done
Dps kill things fast = Jobs done
Healer has you alive = jobs done

Whatever else they do is a bonus, so mind your own business and get on with your own class.

[AsahinaMyLove]

lol really? Are people THAT Stupid? You can even do dungeons below lv30 even naked! o_O

[Chevronone]

REport for what- for using the legal in-game function? Dont be silly.

The in-game vote dismiss option gives you 4 choices to pick as the reason for the kick:

1. AFK
2. Offline
3. Harassment
4. Cheating

Which option would you suggest be selected in this specific case? Difference in "play style" doesn't exist as a choice to warrant the "legal in-game function." Are you advocating players should lie than?

[Saito_S]

The in-game vote dismiss option gives you 4 choices to pick as the reason for the kick:

1. AFK
2. Offline
3. Harassment
4. Cheating

Which option would you suggest be selected in this specific case? Difference in "play style" doesn't exist as a choice to warrant the "legal in-game function." Are you advocating players should lie than?

They're referring to the fact that, a while back in a thread about vote-kicking and what is actually "justified", a GM said that "differences in playstyle" CAN be a legit reason for someone to get kicked, and that GM's will sometimes be hesitant to step in an penalize the kickers in that kind of situation, because they don't want to wade too far into the muck of parsing and policing disagreements between players. At least, when nothing that is a CLEAR violation of specific rules has occurred.

I can understand their position to some extent. It's a difficult thing to balance. Some would say they should lean more toward being more aggressive and specific with the rules for what is and isn't an acceptable reason to kick. I think if they did so, there'd be advantages and disadvantages vs. how it is now.

I don't have the thread handy and don't recall what to search for to find it; I'm sure someone could dig it up, though.

Anyway: I was sort of hedging my responses for a while, because I haven't healed much lately and didn't have the ability to do any testing or maths (I was mostly posting during downtime at work yesterday), but Rongway's breakdown, supported by others as well, makes it pretty clear that CS beats out Protect in terms of the impact it has on the run, by a LOT, in the starter dungeons. So I feel like I'm back to my original stance: not only is insisting on Protect silly, but CS is actually much better for the run anyway.

Now, I'll still say that if I'm in Satasha and the healer wants to cast Protect and do the swap thing, that's fine. If they cast Protect and don't swap, and just don't have CS at all... eh. It's the starter dungeons, so I wouldn't raise a stink about it. But now knowing all the facts, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend to someone that they DO keep Cleric's on them for these dungeons, and why, if it seemed appropriate to do so. I'm certainly not going to bother with this swapping routing when I'm the healer in those 3 instances, though.

Re: getting kicked over a Protect argument, rather than just casting it to stay in the run... I dunno, I find myself agreeing with those who said they'd almost rather be kicked in that situation. If someone is going to stubbornly refuse to acknowledge objective reality, and be so petty about it as to kick their healer over it (knowing that you might have to wait a while for another one), then I'm not sure I want to party with them. If the Vote Dismiss goes through, then either at least 2 members of the party are buddies, in which case I'd have 2 people against me in any further disagreements that arose, or if none of them know each other, then one person who is adamantly and hilariously against healers not casting Protect in Copperbell decided it was worth dismissing me over it, and someone else went along with it.

And frankly, if the alternative occurred - they asked for Protect, I said no and explained why, and they took the explanation in and went Oh ok, I didn't know that, but now I do! Then hey! Knowledge has been spread! Maybe they're newbies who just assume Protect is absolutely necessary for all content (not an unreasonable assumption when you're new), and now I've had a chance to get them to start thinking critically about situational skill usage. I'd consider that worth slowing down the run by a minute or two.

[Adire]

Really don't understand why some players advocate using Protect so hard in any dungeon prior to like Stone Vigil. One extra cast of Ruin in the time it takes to switch skills around would be more valuable. Eos or Selene are going to be solo healing 90% of the time with or without Protect.