An idea I've had in my head: Reorganizing roulettes for Stormblood

[Ninster]

To preface this: I'm aware of certain threads that have started discussions that apparently got heated enough to spawn troll threads. This is mostly concerning Expert and what-will-no-doubt-be "Level 70 roulette".

While I know the dev team is fond of being formulaic when it comes to making dungeons, I seem to recall Yoshida (or another member) mentioning wanting to try a higher difficulty dungeon. I'm not sure if this was already implemented with Palace of the Dead floors 101+ or if the comment was another musing that's been misinterpeted, but I was wondering if, in a broader sense, there could be an actual "difference" between Expert Roulette and the future "Level 70 roulette".

Currently we have Expert containing the two most recent dungeons, with Level 60 containing previously released dungeons. The end result is Expert seems to lack variety and grows stale quickly while Level 60 roulette can be a surprise (barring it's tendency to fill Aetherochemical Research Facility).

Suppose, though, Stormblood patches implemented two varieties of dungeons at endgame: One that sits at the current difficulty trend, with maybe an occasional boss that may require a bit more effort, and one that is deliberately tuned to be of a higher difficulty, with a return to dungeons having mechanics throughout (my primary example to point to is Wanderer's Palace's tonberry stalkers). Assuming the tomestone currency system is in place, the former dungeon would be worth less the latter.

However, the first variety of dungeon would have a permanent place in Level 70 Roulette, and second in Expert. Assuming two new dungeons per patch, Expert and 70 roulettes would eventually grow to reasonable sizes as patches are implemented.

I am mostly just dreaming here, as I recognize there would be some snags with this:

1. Stormblood release with this model would mean either 2 dungeons and no roulettes, or 4 dungeons for the sake of creating the two roulettes.

2. Development time: Would a more difficult dungeon each patch push patch dates further apart?

3. Complacency setting in looking at the long term: To a degree this is happening now with recent dungeons and raids. There's only so many combinations of mechanics that can be used and re-used before it becomes too familiar to a number of players. How likely would it be that after a few Expert dungeons the playerbase reaches the point where everything is the same again?

I'm not counting any "entitlement" related snags with this, such as Expert being "inaccessible" to some players or rewards being "not enough" for Level 70: Tomestone accumulation seems to be a very rare issue that if Expert is "too much" for some players that Level 70 roulette (along with the other roulettes) will be enough.

[SeriousxSarcasm]

I think it's an interesting idea. As you say, there would be a lot of snags to work out, but I think it could spice things up a bit. I'd love to see some 8-man dungeons in the future, instead of just trials. Although personally, rerunning content doesn't bore me as much as some people. I make it a personal challenge to do it faster the next time, make my rotations/opener tighter (there's always room for improvement! :3 ). I don't look at every run as the same because you're in there with a different group of people every time and have to adapt accordingly. <3 I dunno, to me that keeps it fun lol, but I admit it can get boring if you get a long string of cookie-cutter parties that just speed run it. xD

[Rongway]

I just wanted to make sure the way I was visualizing this is consistent with your meaning.

Status Quo

3.3
DR:60              |    DR:Expert
3.0 Story Dungeon  |    3.3 Dungeon A
3.0 Dungeon A      |    3.3 Dungeon B
3.0 Dungeon B      |
3.1 Dungeon A      |
3.1 Dungeon B      |
3.2 Dungeon A      |
3.2 Dungeon B      |

3.4
DR:60              |    DR:Expert
3.0 Story Dungeon  |    3.4 Dungeon A
3.0 Dungeon A      |    3.4 Dungeon B
3.0 Dungeon B      |
3.1 Dungeon A      |
3.1 Dungeon B      |
3.2 Dungeon A      |
3.2 Dungeon B      |
3.3 Dungeon A      |
3.3 Dungeon B      |

with no significant difference in difficulty between dungeons A and B of a given patch, versus

4.0

DR:70              |    DR:Expert             |  (or no DR:Expert yet)
4.0 Story Dungeon  |    4.0 Hard Dungeon A    |  4.0 Hard Dungeon
4.0 Normal Dungeon |    4.0 Hard Dungeon B    |

4.1
DR:70              |    DR:Expert
4.0 Story Dungeon  |    4.0 Hard Dungeon (A)
4.0 Normal Dungeon |   (4.0 Hard Dungeon (B))
4.1 Normal Dungeon |    4.1 Hard Dungeon

4.2
DR:70              |    DR:Expert
4.0 Story Dungeon  |    4.0 Hard Dungeon (A)
4.0 Normal Dungeon |   (4.0 Hard Dungeon (B))
4.1 Normal Dungeon |    4.1 Hard Dungeon
4.2 Normal Dungeon |    4.2 Hard Dungeon

where the DR:Expert dungeons would be more "mechanically interesting". Is this what you're suggesting?

[Shurrikhan]

I would certainly like an actual Expert roulette, so that we might be able to see some manner of challenge in dungeons (and rewards proportionate thereto), but I also have to wonder if the daily bonuses aren't misplaced in general. For instance, would the roulette still be perfectly functional if, instead of including only x dungeons inside the roulette to be rotated out or added to per patch, bonuses were instead assigned daily to upward synced dungeons (meaning that even, say, Halatali normal could make use of ilvl 270 gear and lvl 70 abilities, with rewards (for otherwise less valuable dungeons) increased based on the ilvl raised to give each roughly the same challenge and rewards). The roulette in that case could simply be there to decrease queue times, similar to an selection equivocation that isn't necessarily limited to only 5 duties at once, and from which you could then uncheck certain duties you particularly hate, or sort for only the normal or challenge dungeons, or only the remaining daily bonus duties, etc.

[Edewen]

Personally, I think the lvl 60 and lvl 50 roulettes should be reworked.

Include even the expert dungeons in the roulettes
Sync to the minimum ilvl on the dungeons and provide more tomes. Like 300 poetics for a 50, 300 lore for a 60, would be scrips in SB of course. Even add some current tomes for each if you want it to be a competitive option for expert.

This would give reason to do these older dungeons, and actually allow them to be a challenge considering many of us dont get to do these dungeons at the ilvl it is intended for. In fact we sit 20-30 higher then complain it is easy.

[Ninster]

I just wanted to make sure the way I was visualizing this is consistent with your meaning.

*examples*

Is this what you're suggesting?

Spot on. And I'm glad to see some other ideas being presented here.

[Reinha]

Whether expert roulette is using the current model or a new model with more mechanics, I think the item level sync should be more strict. There is nothing expert about smashing everything to pieces with 60 more average item level than intended. If or when a dungeon is moved to level 70 roulette, the sync can be made more lenient as tome rewards are reduced. I also think starting the expansion with 4 dungeons would be a good move. A lot of people felt robbed of content after Heavensward launch.