Lorewise, are Time Mages viable? [Discussion]

[Elexander]

It's a really long post, taking about 6000 characters, so I guess I'll have to post in a succession of replies.

I decided to bring this quite old discussion to the forums so that I would know every thought on people interested. Knowing FF XIV's current state and how the Role Trinity dictates every thing (Damage Dealers, Tanks and Healers, strictly) in it, would it be even slightly possible for Time Mages to be a thing? Let's see what you people think.

Here are my thoughts:
Some facts known that COUNTERS the idea of having Time Mages in the game:
• Astrologians already have control of time - or fate, for that matter. Their specialization lies in deciphering stars and bending space according to their personal Aether.
• Some of their spells are actually heavy references to common Time Mage's, like Gravity and Lightspeed (Haste), even though they are unaspected - thus being categorized as Arcane Magick.
• Yet about their spells: Meteor, a common Time Magick-schooled spell, is given as a Ultimate Limit Break to Black Mages, thus categorizing it as Black Magick.
• The Role Trinity wouldn't allow a class which is based only on buffing and debuffing allies and enemies respectively, thus rendering Time Magick rather "useless" or "less effective" than others.

Some facts known that SUSTAINS the idea of having Time Mages in the game:
• Time is known to be a "catalyst" Element, non-natural, in FF XIV. Although it's not something tangible or present among stats, Alexander's existence has seen to that. Thus, Time Magicks ARE possible to come, as much as we know.
• Time Magicks CAN be remade anew, as some of the Jobs and Classes we already know. For instance, Geomancers/Elementalists used to bear the power to control Water, Wind and Stone, natural elements of creation, instead of Conjurers, which came to be White Mages in the game.
• Technology is a quite recurrent feature in the game. Using corrupted Aether as engine to things, creating weapons that channel Aether into ammunition and ancient technology (Allagan) is a thing still unknown.
• Time Magicks do NOT necessarily have to come out of simple magic manipulation. They can be manipulated into being, be it by using catalysts, summons or steampunk-like technology.

MY POINT OF VIEW:

Although we know that Classes are more unlikely to come in the next expansions, with jobs like AST, DRK, MCH and RDM - the known most recent ones - taking the role of "Special Jobs", there is only a single Healing class in the game. People are forced to learn CONJURER 101 before anything if they want to heal; Even to get Scholar, that branches from Arcanist, they have to reach a specific level in CNJ (15, for that matter), and this is their - OUR - only healing experience before getting SCH itself.
More Healing Classes may come in time, giving actual CHOICES to people starting to play of whether you want to heal as a tree-loving magician or something else first.

Speaking in "time", we also know most classes/jobs have a deity among the 12 to which they can relate, Nymeia (and presumably Althyk) being Astrologian's, for example, and Nophica White Mage's. That can also be somewhat directly related to the classes starting cities, when not relating our Astrologian role to Ishgardian's. Althyk is the the god of Time among the twelve, Nymeia's older brother, and has no classes related to it (to my knowledge).
All this brings to light that there is, although little and darkened, fertile soil for Time Mages to grow - and I'm not talking about their Space Tarot Counterparts, the Astrologians.

Although most healers actually have similar play styles, they all differ in a point. White Magick is heavily based in pure healing, lifting people's HP bars to max with little to few difficulty, while giving them regen effects so that they can be mended by the power of the light. "Fae Magick", Nymian Spellweaving, is heavily focused on avoiding damage to be done, bringing sustain in the process by summoning Faeries and harnessing their power. Astrologians use their Arcane Magick to bend Fate itself to their will, while manipulating their own Aether between Light and Darkness to bring Benefic spells to help their allies or Malefic spells to wound their enemies. Their alignment with celestial bodies allow them to shape sunlight in renewing magic, like that of the WHMs, or moonlight in shrouding magic, like that of the SCHs.

Chronomancers, as can be called those who harness and control powers related to Time, could be simple Healing classes, based on undoing damage done in times past. While Astrologians are heavily focused in the future, Time Mages could fit in the game as healers specialized in rolling back what has happened seconds prior to the event of casting, intensifying healing based on damage taken for a specific amount of time. They could keep their buffs from other games, like Haste and Slow, yet focused in their stronger versions, which effects are party-wide. Space magic, like Meteor and Gravity, would no longer belong to them, giving space to a new range of time manipulation spells - take WoW's Warlock Doom, for example, which does a certain amount of damage after some time. Intensifying other debuffs on enemies, hastening their effects or delaying hazardous effects on allies, they could also prove useful supports. They could not necessarily use the same pattern for every magician - They could rely upon Aethered technology instead of using powers of nature/whatever those fairies come from. Wouldn't it be sick to see a healer using a magicked, sand-filled needle with a shield hologram as a weapon?

What I mean to say is that I believe - and that's my sole noob belief - that Time Mages ARE a viable class in FF XIV, if reworked appropriately. And, again, I'm not talking about looking at a Bole card and gluing it on your tank's forehead.

Those interested, please, discuss. Be it to prove me wrong and correct my mistakes, be it to agree with me and hope for possibly nothing. Enrich the post. Don't let it die.

And sorry for the spam. There'll be a lot of blank boxes - those are the deleted posts I created to divide those 6035 characters coherently in stacks lower than a thousand characters long. Thank you Anonymoose for enlightening me about hot to bypass that limit.

[Anonymoose]

what an annoying 1000 character limit to posts in this forum.

For future reference, the character limit only exists on the initial post, not edits to that post. You can circumvent it by writing everything you want to and copying it, posting something like "EDIT INCOMING", clicking the edit button, pasting, and saving.

[Elexander]

For future reference, the character limit only exists on the initial post, not edits to that post. You can circumvent it by writing everything you want to and copying it, posting something like "EDIT INCOMING", clicking the edit button, pasting, and saving.

Thank you! That's mostly welcome help. But... Why do they do that, after all? ;-;

[Anonymoose]

Thank you! That's mostly welcome help. But... Why do they do that, after all? ;-;

It's a holdover from the early days of the re-launch. Why they never re-evaluated its purpose, I'll never know.

But I might as well toss in my two cents on the OP, right?

When it comes to vague theoreticals like this, I have to keep myself in check, though. I'll end up going on a six-page diatribe that basically amounts of the meeting minutes of a battle team brainstorming session that never came to fruition.

That said, time magic already exists via both Allag and Sharlayan (at least), so a mage that utilizes such magicks as the cornerstone of its traditions is of course theoretically possible. When I try to imagine what it might be like, I, too, skew towards healer.

Thematically, if you slow an enemy, it attacks allies less often. If you haste allies, the enemy dies with fewer chances to attack. Both of these result in fewer enemy actions per encounter, and thus less damage taken. Even solo, the former allows you more opportunity for defense, the latter more opportunity for offense. A simple theme to build on, but a stable one.

Manipulation of over-time effects, stop (bind or stun), gravity (slow or weight), reflect barriers, entropy damage, "black hole" temporal effects. I could see it all theoretically working.

But at the end of the day I try not to think of classes and jobs beyond them being balanced button mashing within a given role, hoping that they'll combine aesthetics and lore to make something I find enjoyable. The little nuances of rhythm, flow, timing, positioning I don't do well contemplating in advance; I tend to learn-by-doing in that respect, lol.

[Elexander]

That said, time magic already exists via both Allag and Sharlayan (at least), so a mage that utilizes such magicks as the cornerstone of its traditions is of course theoretically possible. When I try to imagine what it might be like, I, too, skew towards healer.

And I truly believe there's no better option to it. It would totally fit as a healing class/job.

Thematically, if you slow an enemy, it attacks allies less often. If you haste allies, the enemy dies with fewer chances to attack. Both of these result in fewer enemy actions per encounter, and thus less damage taken. Even solo, the former allows you more opportunity for defense, the latter more opportunity for offense. A simple theme to build on, but a stable one.

Here, we have yet another possible theme, in fact; Slow and Haste spells could be more than simple casts, but auras, stances instead. Choosing between giving time to react or reacting faster to time with a party-wide effect could fit well.

... reflect barriers, entropy damage, "black hole" temporal effects.

Reflect, as a spell that first appeared in FF XII, is also a strong candidate. Not sure how it'd work in order to give a healthy gameplay to it, but it surely would be something interesting to have. About black holes, I think they fit more into the Astrologian's fantasy, knowing that this would be more like Arcane space Magick.

But at the end of the day I try not to think of classes and jobs beyond them being balanced button mashing within a given role, hoping that they'll combine aesthetics and lore to make something I find enjoyable.

To be honest, that's the edge end for every single class, it's usefulness. Beyond the fantasy, there's a role to be met, and classes usually have to excel in it in their own way. Otherwise, it falls to oblivion. Like it almost happened to Astrologian, for example.

I thank you for your feedback. Feels light to know that there are people who believe Time Mages are something possible (although not something to be expected) in this game.

[RobinMalvin]

Lorewise, Time Magic did exist in Eorzea. 3.5 Hildi quest reveals records that Allagan mages had discovered the means to control and manipulate time. The Sharlayan mage Quan's attempts to unearth this forgotten magic resulted in the creation of Gigi, a mammet that was meant to be able to 'rewind time', but turns out his magic is to 'warp reality to his view'.

[Eloah]

snip'.

This relates to what Moose said as well. But as you indicated, Time magics did exist, regardless of what the title was called, ie Time Mage. But as you indicated a Sharlayan Mage studied these ancient lost arts. While there may not be anything definitive connecting the two this games Time Mage is Astrologian. Regardless of people wanting to hear it or not. Moose indicated it himself, sorry Moose, T.T. But he would view it as a healer, slow down or stop enemies, "Disable", Hasten allies, "Arrow", rewind time, "their healing spells are described as rewindind the damage before it happened, protective barriers, "Noct Sect shields, Bole, Collective Unconscious, they even get the traditional spell Gravity. I'm sorry to disappoint you but AST is you Time Mage.

Okay, to be fair, i didnt read the entire OP post before I wrote this. But I did notice something that might help you understand the magicks of not only FFXIV, but the series as a whole.

[Claymore65]

It's been a while, but I believe the Astrologian is already using Time Magic to reverse damage. During one of the quests, I distinctly remember a Knight complaining about your healing magic, since it didn't leave a scar. Unfortunately, I feel like it might be really hard to make a significant distinction between a Time Mage healer and the Astrolgian.

[Risvertasashi]

When I try to imagine what it might be like, I, too, skew towards healer.

Like... Astrologian? xP

It's been a while, but I believe the Astrologian is already using Time Magic to reverse damage. During one of the quests, I distinctly remember a Knight complaining about your healing magic, since it didn't leave a scar. Unfortunately, I feel like it might be really hard to make a significant distinction between a Time Mage healer and the Astrolgian.

Astro can even haste allies and has various other time-themed abilities. So I have to agree with you, I really doubt we'll see something distinct from what we have.

[Anonymoose]

Like... Astrologian? xP

That said, time magic already exists via <...> Sharlayan

Figured it was just something taken as granted in the hypothetical, lol. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I've seen similar discussions on Thief in spite of Ninja (though at least in that case there's a class to branch).