Mentor Players Kicking newer players from Duty Ques for low DPS

[Alex_LoneWolf]

After skimming through a lot of these posts, I really must admit that both sides have some pros and cons to their points. But I don't think that the kick (if it was started by a mentor) was justified.

Gear: I dungeon grind a lot for gear, have been for quite a while. If the OP bought tank gear, could be on accident. I've messed up and bought the wrong gear before, even for my Summoner.

What to run/average iLv.: The debate on requirments to get into instances aside, I don’t think it shouldn’t matter what you run as long as you can meet the requirements and try. I usually do daily roulettes, then a few dungeons each day so that I can get some tomes. I don’t see why it should matter where they come from, as long as the person getting them is at least attempting to do something in the dungeon.

Cross-class skills: Trust be told, as a Summoner, I didn't have Raging Strikes for some time and I still don't have Quelling Strikes. Yes, the skills do help in dungeons, so I wouldn't ignore them, but I've never gotten kicked cause I didn't have cross-class skills. I do some pretty decent damage and should invest in Quelling Strikes, but haven’t yet.

The terms “Casual”, “Elietest”, etc: Usually these are terms I stay away from. There are very few people that I call “casual” players and probably even less that I call “elitest”. To me, how much someone plays and how long they’ve been playing doesn’t matter in this conversation. They’re in there for the clear, so a mentor should be helping them learn or giving tips, tricks, and suggestions, else not trying to do the things a mentor would do.

I think Talya’s comment here reflects what I’ve heard from many mentors in my FC and what I would probably end up doing if I was a mentor:

As a mentor who mentors, when I load in one of the first things I do is look at other players' gear, especially those I didn't queue with. And let me tell you, sometimes my response is, out loud, "oh my god. Oh my gawwd." OP's gear isn't the worst I've seen. First week of Xelphatol my party had a BLM with the Bismarck weapon. Not the crafted one.

Though I've never initiated a vote kick against someone for pulls taking forever, I have loudly suffered (my poor partner and TS mates) through dungeons that can be cleared in 20 min taking 45-50 min instead.

I’m not attempting to ridicule the Mentors who are out there and who are trying to get through Lv. 60 content with what I’m saying, but as a caster DPS, I think DPS is just not something that should be a factor when clearing content with new people.

[Vidu]

I’m not attempting to ridicule the Mentors who are out there and who are trying to get through Lv. 60 content with what I’m saying, but as a caster DPS, I think DPS is just not something that should be a factor when clearing content with new people.

For me, both at a mentor and as a fellow player, I have a bit of a struggle with the term "new player" when it comes to level 60 (or actually even past level 50) content - you might be new to the dungeon/trial and if there are mechanics to be explained, I'll gladly do that. If you are a bit slow with pulls as tank, I wont mind. If you're only healing as healer, even if that means a lot of downtime, I wont say a word. If you fail mechanics you're seeing for the first time - no problem!

However - after well over 50 hours of playing this game (and that should be about what it takes to reach HW) you cant use the "I'm new" excuse for everything anymore - you should be expected to know
1) How to play your class (might have been the case for the OP, but for the sake of completion - a bard not using WM? A BLM using the level 50 rotation in Hullbreaker HM? A tank not holding aggro in the Vault? - No, sorry, you're not "new" anymore, you had plenty of time to learn. In a solo-game you wouldnt have made it past the third boss if you dont learn how to play the game and improve your skill - but here you have three other people picking up your slack...)
2) Which kind of gear to wear - also something you should have learned by now. There are PLENTY of options to get some better gear without to much effort.

...and again - its a sign of disrespect to make your way into a dungeon without being actually prepared for it - and by that I dont mean "Go and watch a video". You're very welcome to run a dungeon blind (with me) - if you ask to run it blind, I wont say a word about mechanics and let you figure it out on your own!
And IF you bought the wrong gear or didnt had the time to upgrade I'd say you might be better off to be vocal about - acknowlegde that you know its not great but explain that you'd really like to see the story right now so you hope they wont mind. Communication can be key here! (and looking at OPs reactions here... they could work on their key, I'd say)

[Crysten]

I would assume that it's hard for the OP to upgrade his gear if he is getting kicked from Dungeons that reward tomestones for better gear.

If only there was a way that someone could get i200-210 gear in a small amount of time with minimal effort without having to go into a dungeon...

[AsahinaMyLove]

Whats with these so called "Mentor('s)" that have no respect to new players and dont even HELP at all!? D: <
Do they think everyone is a profesional or/and buying a set of lv250HQ from MB as soon they hit lv60?

Those "Mentors" are fault that new players might think: "Oh wow, all high ilvl players are asses!" and quit our nice game! >_>

[Venoshock]

Whats with these so called "Mentor('s)" that have no respect to new players and dont even HELP at all!? D: <
Do they think everyone is a profesional or/and buying a set of lv250HQ from MB as soon they hit lv60?

Those "Mentors" are fault that new players might think: "Oh wow, all high ilvl players are asses!" and quit our nice game! >_>

The OP blamed the mentor for initiating vote kick even though there's no way of knowing if the mentor initiated or even agreed to it. To be honest, I believe OP isn't telling the full story as they've been kicked twice consecutively.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

Also just like to point out mentors are there to help out novices. They are under no obligation to explain and help out post novice. Yes I help people out all the time but that is in my nature.

Players also have this misconception of what the Mentor Roulette is, it is there to fill duties that are struggling to find roles hence why it covers majority of fights in the game. Of course if it is a pre HW dungeon or their is a sprout in the party then a mentor should explain if they are seeing people struggle. One of the duties on the list is Dun Scaith. Players are not going to stop at every boss and explain the mechanics. Now if there is a wipe you may find you get some advice wanted or not.

Once that sprout goes you are no longer a novice and if you feel that you still need help then I suggest that you slow down and stop doing the story. This way you don't lose novice status, you have access to novice network for advice and can repeat dungeons for experience in learning your class/job.

Now is the time for you to step up after losing the sprout, either read a guide on equipment/dungeon, ask friends to run with you and learn, ask your FC or linkshell. Some people don't even want advice in later dungeons as they want to run it blind. Unless there is a wipe/ I see a player struggling or I am asked in a HW dungeon then I won't give advice.

One other thing unless it specifically says PvE mentor then don't expect the mentor to know anything about the dungeon. Reason I say this is I died in a dungeon whilst having craft mentor on and I got comments like "lol your a mentor and you died" to which I replied "It says craft mentor, so unless you want one of these mobs turned into a table then get on with the dungeon"

Mentors will also gain access to Duty Roulette: Mentor, which assigns players to duties that are struggling to fill party member slots.

With the exception of parties actively seeking members for an ongoing duty, Duty Roulette: Mentor will not match together a full party of mentors.

[Freerider]

Not gonna lie I do love to run things blind. If we wipe then I ask. Haha

[Altena]

Regarding the OP, and people back and forthing about the lack of cross class skills - yes they are "needed" for an end game duty to maximise your potential, but this newbie is just starting out. Give them a break..

As for BRD with Invigorate, you can actually likely get away without invigorate with the right DoT managment on pulls of 5 or less mobs - at least while you are starting out with your first job. Apply DoT's, rotate through and use Iron Jaws before the DoTs fall off and spam RoD whenever it procs. Still ends up doing fairly solid damage. I know when you start to get to 5+ mobs, spamming Quick Knock is going to be flat out better, and this is not optimal by any means, but it's going to do a lot more damage than "that guy" who single targets during a mass pull.

Yes Invigorate is absolutely necessary, as is blood for blood to maximize potential, however not having these early on as a newbie isn't life or death..

Twice in a row does seem rather suspect but I have run into quite a number of bad-attitude mentors both in DF and in the novice network - so there are absolutely plenty of them around.

One other thing unless it specifically says PvE mentor then don't expect the mentor to know anything about the dungeon. Reason I say this is I died in a dungeon whilst having craft mentor on and I got comments like "lol your a mentor and you died" to which I replied "It says craft mentor, so unless you want one of these mobs turned into a table then get on with the dungeon"

I lol'd at this.. I hope you got 3 commendations for that response alone.

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I do want to add something I experienced that isn't entirely mentor related - but more related to the vote kick..

I have been leveling MNK over the passed week. Up to the cursed Vault.. Get to final boss without much drama..
We wipe to the same spot 3 times due to the healer failing the heal check.

The other DPS initiated a vote kick, I personally voted no, the tank voted yes. Healer was kicked..

This is a personal stance of mine - but I prefer not to vote kick someone if they are genuinely trying but just failing to perform. Especially if it's just a dungeon.
Three attempts is probably some people's limit here, but all content in this game aside from Ex primals and Savage should really be able to be cleared regardless of skill level.

I also feel like the final boss in the Vault is actually harder to heal than a lot of the Expert dungeons we have seen of late.. Heh

[Evumeimei]

I've done Sohr Khai with low dps before. I just supplemented DPS as a healer and we made it through just fine. It's definitely doable. No real reason to kick someone, especially in dungeons, unless they've caused a wipe more than once. Being impatient or dps being slow isn't really a legitimate reason imo, especially if you queued through DF. Work with what you've got or queue with friends.

[Alleo]

Its interesting to see what a mentor should do in the opinion of some people. We are here to help out new players, those that are starting the game and need help. We are not here to carry all new bonus people to the end of the instance. If someone is lvl 60 I dont see them as new. I will give an explanation about the boss mechanics but I will not go there and look if the players does something wrong with their rotation. I also carried players through dungeons that had no dps checks with them only using one attack as a monk...(I cried and facepalmed a lot inside of me). But not everyone will be so patient. And it was already said by the GM that a difference in play style is a legitimate reason to kick someone.

Sohr Khai does have some soft enrages at the bosses. If the other DD was also only okayish in their dps than this might mean that they wont even defeat the final boss. Well and if one of the others see that the OP does not even wear gear that are good for their job, well its kinda their own fault too. The dungeons are not limited, using maybe one or two weeks to gear up before going into it again would not mean that they will lose the chance to finish it.

@Altena: I am mostly a person that tries to give people a chance too. But the endboss of the vault is a healer check. If the others in your party managed to avoid a lot of attacks and you still wiped because the healer did not heal fast enough than this shows that they are not ready yet. Giving them three chances to finish him is already quite patient these days..sadly there are often people that want to vote kick someone after only one wipe. But if he/she is not good enough to heal through it than its sadly the best to kick them. There are the other people in the party that wants to finish the dungeon. Keeping someone in the group even though that person is the reason for the wipe and it will not get better is kinda a waste of time for all the others. I mean if this is a dps check and one person in the group is holding everyone back because they want to play ice mage and thus they wont have enough dps to finish the boss it would be kinda bad for the rest if you let that person still stick with you because in that situation you will not finish the dungeon and thus you wasted all the time which could have been easily saved by kicking the person. (And really the person will also not get better because they will be carried through the content..if they are kicked often enough maybe they will start to finally learn how to at least play their job)

I've done Sohr Khai with low dps before. I just supplemented DPS as a healer and we made it through just fine. It's definitely doable. No real reason to kick someone, especially in dungeons, unless they've caused a wipe more than once. Being impatient or dps being slow isn't really a legitimate reason imo, especially if you queued through DF. Work with what you've got or queue with friends.

If the rest of the party is good enough to cover the slack of someone else than they might be able to finish the dungeon. But in the end that person still got carried through content thanks to the rest working harder. And about your sentence with going with friends. Well the same can be said in reverse too. If you dont want to put in some work, are barely past the ilvl or are just not good with the game, you can just queue with your friends. And in content that has a harsh dps check and cant be cleared thanks to some hitting only auto attack..well low dps is a reason to kick.