PLD, WAR, & DRK balancing ideas

[MagiusNecros]

If we want to do some balancing we can always start with making Parry worth something instead of just looking good on your Job's stat sheet. Physical resistances would be nice too. Let's do something with that.

I'm not going to comment on DPS changes when it comes to tanking. I'd rather be tanking incoming damage instead of pushing phases.

[Llus]

If we want to do some balancing we can always start with making Parry worth something instead of just looking good on your Job's stat sheet. Physical resistances would be nice too. Let's do something with that.

I'm not going to comment on DPS changes when it comes to tanking. I'd rather be tanking incoming damage instead of pushing phases.

I'd rather be pushing phases. FFXIV's tanking meta is about mitigating tankbusters while managing fluff damage - both of these are easily taken care of with all tanks.

[ADVSS]

im sorry in my experince mrd/drk feel more like entry level tanks, i didnt find myself chasing adds in brayfloz or warly dungeons like i had to with pld, but keep in mind pld was my main and first job in 2.0....

[Sarcatica]

It is a silly thought when you want a meta-less competitive game. Even more ironic to say that competitive in FFXIV rarely happens, I wouldn't call normal run of Creator Savage competitive too. At the current stage only speedrun is categorized as competitive, WAR has remained for 3 cycle raid patches and obviously something is wrong but that doesn't mean that WAR is the best tank in the game due to how long their CDs are and by nature of how WAR wants to be in Deliverance, please don't start on how IB is OP because no serious WAR stays in Defiance for even a second of it, especially true when you have above 90 percentile team for Creator mostly because of how lenient checks have become.

Competitive games always has meta picks, when some things get nerfed, some other picks become meta and it's a cycle. Balance has a nice ring but it is folly at best because the top players will always find what's best to bring.

You are not convincing me in one bit on the competitive side because very little amount of groups do speedrun now. The large portion of balance issues only comes when you are pushing the limits of each job, also why casters/mnk/whm/pld are all in the same spot due to the other remaining jobs being better for personal and the team in DPS alone. Mnk is not even much better on personal dps either when you objectively compare the number to drg or even nin at this point.

Edit: How many of you here have cleared a12s at least once?

[Starkbeaumont]

imo balance can only be achieved if all tanks have access to certain key abilities.
Those would be:

- Slashing debuff
- (all type) damage down debuff
- similar damage output

In all other aspects the tanks can be very different.

[Llus]

imo balance can only be achieved if all tanks have access to certain key abilities.
Those would be:

- Slashing debuff
- (all type) damage down debuff
- similar damage output

In all other aspects the tanks can be very different.

This is part of where trying to fit PLD into a raid static tends to be difficult. Beyond the very low DPS compared to DRK and WAR, WAR is going to be THE go-to tank because of Storm's Path and Storm's Eye. Even excluding deliverance stance and fell cleave; WAR can put out some pretty high numbers in DPS and are king of debuffs just with eye & path. While both PLD and DRK provide their own debuffs in the form of Reprisal and Rage of Halone, DRK gets an extra debuff with delirium putting them at an advantage for debuffs against magic users. Changes to some of PLD's skills in heavensward have made PLD even less desirable - moving goring blade into a >50 skill; means PLD has nothing for DPS in older fights - it's now just Rage of Halone. Changing the way shield swipe works means PLD's bulwark is fairly useless now; you used to be able to pop bulwark and shield swipe for days. Nothing about PLD stands out as useful in a raid situation. Their DPS is the lowest, their raid utility is severely lacking and couple that with the (still pervasive) idea that PLDs are the easiest tank to pick up and learn (hence noob tank); nobody wants them in a bleeding-edge static.

Both WAR and DRK are very well balanced around each other and WAR has been balanced around PLD since 2.x but PLD + DRK has no synergy. When it's a no-brainer to bring a WAR because of their Path + Eye debuffs and raw damage output; statics aren't left with much of a choice. Bring a tank that has 2 useful debuffs and comparable DPS or a tank that has 1 useful debuff and low DPS? Again, a no-brainer decision. SE needs to leave DRK and WAR alone and give PLD the raid utility and DPS they deserve (especially if you want to see bleeding-edge statics able to choose a DRK + PLD comp)

* PLD's blind and pacification is useless in end-game raiding, bosses can't miss and can't be pacified

[ADVSS]

I mean really besides the mp gimmick of drk, pld plays pretty similarly, If say they had to alternate a combo for an additional debuff or buff the gameplay(skill) wouldnt really be much lower than drk. Not saying pld dont because im sure they do to keep goring up, but still as mt or ot, besides popping DA every 2 combos how super different is it, oh yeah and keeping scourge and plunges when off cd

[Dzian]

for paladin they either need to change the entire games dps or gtfo meta to make defsive choices viable and actually desirable...
or they need to rework paladin into an offensive tank.... becase defence is just laughable...

you could pretty much just change 1 skill. divine veil. instead of having that as a buff that shields the entire party. make it offensive make it a divine buff to the parties attack power / attack magic power, and suddenly you'd find a lot of people looking at paladins... even if it worked by oath. shield oath you get the shield effect sword oath you get the attack power......

paladin would be instantly more desirable even with that one change. wouldn't even matter how much of an attack power boost it actually was.

either paladins need to move into a more offensive role, or the game needs to move into a more defensive meta than dps or gtfo

[Llus]

for paladin they either need to change the entire games dps or gtfo meta to make defsive choices viable and actually desirable...
or they need to rework paladin into an offensive tank.... becase defence is just laughable...

you could pretty much just change 1 skill. divine veil. instead of having that as a buff that shields the entire party. make it offensive make it a divine buff to the parties attack power / attack magic power, and suddenly you'd find a lot of people looking at paladins... even if it worked by oath. shield oath you get the shield effect sword oath you get the attack power......

paladin would be instantly more desirable even with that one change. wouldn't even matter how much of an attack power boost it actually was.

either paladins need to move into a more offensive role, or the game needs to move into a more defensive meta than dps or gtfo

I seriously doubt that will happen. That meta has been around since 2.x and would require HUGE changes to implement. It will be easier and better for the entire community to simply give PLDs the offensive skills they need.
A change like that to divine veil would almost certainly make PLD the new go-to tank and groups would suddenly say PLD or GTFO. I agree, PLD needs help but it needs balanced improvements so that there's not this constant BiS party comp that excludes classes (MNK, PLD, WHM). SE needs to rethink these roles to make them, not just viable but, desirable with any party comp of 2 tank, 2 heal, 2 mele, 2 ranged

[Dzian]

I seriously doubt that will happen. That meta has been around since 2.x and would require HUGE changes to implement. It will be easier and better for the entire community to simply give PLDs the offensive skills they need.
A change like that to divine veil would almost certainly make PLD the new go-to tank and groups would suddenly say PLD or GTFO. I agree, PLD needs help but it needs balanced improvements so that there's not this constant BiS party comp that excludes classes (MNK, PLD, WHM). SE needs to rethink these roles to make them, not just viable but, desirable with any party comp of 2 tank, 2 heal, 2 mele, 2 ranged

oh no no I'm not saying it would happen. I was more saying any kind of defensive buffs to the job would just be lolled at if the meta doesn't change.

it would be the same as giving a whm even more powerfull heals in 4.0.... even something like aoe benediction... they'd just get lolled at cos still no dps......

my divine veil thing wasn't that well thought out to be honest it was just a quick example of how any kind of offensive utility would make pld more desirable. yet a hundred defensive buffs the job would still be a joke