Change the structure of the 4-dungeons, maybe?

[Molic]

--snip--

I think that your ideas are pretty great sylvain, they expanded on the current system without having to create something completely new and refresh old content. It would be nice to actually have the boss mechanics do something also besides "10% of the player health". Even at minimum ilvl requirements you don't notice some of the boss mechanics at all currently.

The 5 bonus objectives you mentioned for the savage dungeon is actually pretty similar to how the 1.0 dungeons worked, depending on what you did in the 1.0 dungeon you got an extra chest at the end for a total of 5 chests. In 1.0 the objectives were to beat the boss, beat the dungeon in under 12mins, kill certain mobs, do things in a certain order etc. They could populate more chests at the end of the final boss like 1.0 also depending on objectives completed.

[Acidblood]

@Sylvain

Sounds interesting, especially the change to 'Expert' (and addition of 'Savage') roulette... i.e. actually making it a 'hard mode' of the existing dungeons, instead of just the 2 'new' dungeons. I would also love to see this retrospectively applied to older (e.g. level 50) dungeons, as a lot of them are generally more interestingly designed than the current dungeons. Of course, this would require a fair bit of upfront effort, and new systems to make dungeons scalable etc. however in the long term it would mean that all dungeon designs could remain 'current', mid-core / hard-core players would have something to do outside of weekly raids / tomestone runs, and the existing easy mode dungeon progression (for people playing catch-up, etc.) could be preserved.

As for the 'Call for Arms', it sounds a bit like the adventurer in need, but yeah it would be nice to able to queue as several different roles (especially for 24 mans) in order to get the fastest queue without having to try and work out that you are actually waiting on a Healer / DPS (it happens..) even though it says Tank in need.

[Inosaska]

I would love the ability to veto things in the duty finder so that I don't get them at all. King Moogle trial I hate it so much because of the constant wipes from it that is one trial I would love to veto from ever getting it same thing could be applied to dungeons.

[Lambdafish]

I would love the ability to veto things in the duty finder so that I don't get them at all. King Moogle trial I hate it so much because of the constant wipes from it that is one trial I would love to veto from ever getting it same thing could be applied to dungeons.

You mean the roulette? Because that would go against the whole concept of the roulette, especially when expert only had two options

[Inosaska]

You mean the roulette? Because that would go against the whole concept of the roulette, especially when expert only had two options

It gets tiring doing king moogle over and over and seeing it constantly wipe. It's rather boring at this point people keep saying not to do mechanics and then we wipe and wipe and wipe then someone says lets do mechanics now. I would love the ability to veto that trial.

[Lambdafish]

It gets tiring doing king moogle over and over and seeing it constantly wipe. It's rather boring at this point people keep saying not to do mechanics and then we wipe and wipe and wipe then someone says lets do mechanics now. I would love the ability to veto that trial.

As I said, that would go against the whole concept of the roulette. You get bonus rewards as compensation for running the risk of getting moogle.

[Makeda]

They've gotten very similar across all MMOs largely because when they vary it up a bit, players start avoiding the 'different' dungeons.

Remember Mauradon from World of Warcraft - amazingly designed place... but even when it was current content it was very hard to convince people to be willing to enter a 4 hour 5-person dungeon... so they re-made it into 3 small linear fragments that only used up about half of the actual original dungeon...

I remember one Guild Wars 2 dungeon that involved moving a boss over traps. A dozen or more. Boss immune to all damage but the traps. You set the traps by doing something funny while avoiding adds... It was a very clever 'fight without using any of your abilities' design... and players hated it. Even though it was nothing more than a 'swim in a tunnel to the boss, then engage' - super short. But the gimmick was too strong (for those wishing to correct my very fuzzy memory... I am trying to remember how the original 'Southshore Living Story Event' mini-dungeon worked, but it's been a few years since that got removed from their game).

Almost every MMO has a Mauradon story - a dungeon that either had non-linear choices, differently designed boss mechanics, a different kind of reward, some messing with your abilities, or something.
- They always looked amazing when we saw them previewed in betas... but when they hit live servers... players would start avoiding them.

Guild Wars 2 and WoW both had several of these over the spans of their design (GW2 got away with many of them being from limited events so they could just quietly let them vanish... but they learned the wrong lesson from this and just got rid of their dungeon team rather than adapt to the playerbase).

I agree with the concern that dungeons in MMOs are too similar these days... I just don't know how we overcome player reluctance to accept variety.

[Shurrikhan]

They've gotten very similar across all MMOs largely because when they vary it up a bit, players start avoiding the 'different' dungeons.

Remember Mauradon from World of Warcraft - amazingly designed place... but even when it was current content it was very hard to convince people to be willing to enter a 4 hour 5-person dungeon... so they re-made it into 3 small linear fragments that only used up about half of the actual original dungeon....

I grinded the shit out of Maradon. It might not have been as efficient as Scarlet, but the aesthetics and the level span made it so worthwhile for me back then... As for other, similar places like Blackrock Depths... you could always do spans and reset runs... (Dire Maul's long walks were the only real issue I can think of.)

I'd honestly rather have some dungeons that some people absolutely love and some people avoid than mediocrity that we all just... do... and then don't feel one way or the other about.

[Molic]

Snip

I think one way to combat that is to have entirely different game modes. Kind of like First person shooter (terrtories, capture the flag, search and destroy, etc). For they dungeons we have now we could call that mode: classic dungeon

Then we could add like tower defense style mode, a horde mode, you could have where the players turn into monster and have to stop adventures or bandits type of mode. Boss battle mode, etc

If you went about it that way, they could probably even rework a lot of the older dungeons and give players more variety.

Players could then just que up for there favorite mode, like they do in FPS games. Or have a mode roulette.

[Sida]

I think one way to combat that is to have entirely different game modes. Kind of like First person shooter (terrtories, capture the flag, search and destroy, etc). For they dungeons we have now we could call that mode: classic dungeon

Then we could add like tower defense style mode, a horde mode, you could have where the players turn into monster and have to stop adventures or bandits type of mode. Boss battle mode, etc

If you went about it that way, they could probably even rework a lot of the older dungeons and give players more variety.

Players could then just que up for there favorite mode, like they do in FPS games. Or have a mode roulette.

People would end up complaining why the roulette can give a mode they don't like.