Is DPS'ing as a Healer Vote Kickable?

[Campi]

You're looking at good and bad as completely black or white. As an example, two Bards. Same gear. One of them has an imperfect rotation, but ensures he always sings the right song at the proper times. The other one never sings, but has a pitch perfect rotation.

Do you simply label them both as bad?
I am genuinely curious.

In normal Dungeons only FoE is neede, and a Brd with a perfect Rotation uses it.
The other Songs aren't needed there.

Healers who don't dps, are just lazy and want a free carry.
If the other 3 in the party would only press a button every 10sec, then it will be hard to clear the dungeon.

[nekuxdesu]

You're looking at good and bad as completely black or white. As an example, two Bards. Same gear. One of them has an imperfect rotation, but ensures he always sings the right song at the proper times. The other one never sings, but has a pitch perfect rotation.

Do you simply label them both as bad?
I am genuinely curious.

Of course you would, what kind of question is that?

[Lone-wolfe-02]

Better not get in a group with me then. I am there not heal and keep people alive not dps. I do not dps on my healers, if I want to dps then I will go on a dps job.

There is no requirement to dps as a healer, our job is to keep everyone alive so they can do their job.

Then you will always be a mediocre healer, a good healer can do both and are a credit to their party.

You're looking at good and bad as completely black or white. As an example, two Bards. Same gear. One of them has an imperfect rotation, but ensures he always sings the right song at the proper times. The other one never sings, but has a pitch perfect rotation.

Do you simply label them both as bad?
I am genuinely curious.

Being a Bard involves knowing when and when not to sing, you need to be able to sing and do a large amount of damage otherwise no you cannot be considered "good".

[Paranoir]

I cant understand why people insist on sticking to the notion that healers should do no damage. It's actively encouraged in the novice hall. Are you all saying SE don't know how to play there own game or something?
Sure you don't have to, just as the tank doesn't have to do anything more than use just enough enmity moves, and the dps hit some buttons every so often, maybe pop a cooldown. You'll still complete the run in the 60mins right?

People can do either or, but to say no damage as a healer in this game is the standard is crazy given the design favors the opposite. A healer than can balance healing and damage will provide a smother and quicker run than one that cant.
Might not be by much but still better than a slow run.

All i hear each time this comes up is why aim for an A or B when i can pass with a C. This game has a problem with advocating mediocrity at the expense of other peoples play experience.

Or is your gametime the most important?

[Arg0n]

Better not get in a group with me then. I am there not heal and keep people alive not dps. I do not dps on my healers, if I want to dps then I will go on a dps job.

There is no requirement to dps as a healer, our job is to keep everyone alive so they can do their job.

With a good tank and dd's, as a scholar you can mostly go on auto-follow the whole dungeon.
Is this fair? As a healer, why shouldn't we help the group to clear the dungeon faster instead of staying afk without doing anything?

Or tanks which just hold emnity without using defensive skills to take less damage, is that what you want to?

It's way more fun, if every player in the group try to give his best and make the run smoother and faster.
I really don't get this lazyness since 3.0

[Sylve]

Of course you would, what kind of question is that?

A simple one actually. With your answer seeming to be "Unless you're perfect at your job, you're bad".

In normal Dungeons only FoE is neede, and a Brd with a perfect Rotation uses it.
The other Songs aren't needed there.

Healers who don't dps, are just lazy and want a free carry.
If the other 3 in the party would only press a button every 10sec, then it will be hard to clear the dungeon.

I would like to point out the value in using Army's Paeon between large pulls in 4 mans, especially when your second DD is TP based.
There is also value in Warden's. Especially for Warriors, as it prevents pacification as well as clearing it if applied late.

And yet there are many BRDs who do not sing Foes Req.
I've also never seen a Bard in DF use Warden's on themselves or others, expecting the healer to Esuna/Leeches.

So it's acceptable for a Bard to ignore part of its toolkit in 4mans despite there being occasions to make use of them, but Healers cannot ignore part of theirs when the use, or lack of, does not impact the success rate of the duty in question?

[Masekase_Hurricane]

You're looking at good and bad as completely black or white. As an example, two Bards. Same gear. One of them has an imperfect rotation, but ensures he always sings the right song at the proper times. The other one never sings, but has a pitch perfect rotation.

Do you simply label them both as bad?
I am genuinely curious.

Both are bad players one is lowering his own damage and the other is lowering the parties damage. So by your logic a SCH is not bad if he doesn't get his fairy out or an AST isn't bad if they don't use their cards, well as long as they just heal and everyone lives.

Actually, In my example (based off Neophytes first post), The goalkeeper simply never had an opportunity at the ball, since the rest of his team was good enough to keep it in the opposing half of the field, where the goalkeeper shouldn't be. Does that make him a bad member of the team? He performs his role perfectly well, But doesn't get a chance to perform a secondary role.
Not saying that goalies have never scored goals (I've seen some incredible shots). My example should only be taken in context to what it was replying to.

Actually the goalkeeper would be still doing a secondary role every time he kicks the ball into the opposing teams side of the field. If a goalkeeper wanted to do the bare minimum he would just keep passing it to his team in his half. So yes if that goalkeeper takes no risks doing goal kicks that may go to an opposing player then yes he is a bad goalkeeper.

Everyone can do the bare minimum but if the team fails due to this expect a kick/disband or called out for it.

[Emstidor]

Better not get in a group with me then. I am there not heal and keep people alive not dps. I do not dps on my healers, if I want to dps then I will go on a dps job.

There is no requirement to dps as a healer, our job is to keep everyone alive so they can do their job.

I might not go so far as to initiate a vote kick against you, but I will happily click "yes" if the window comes up. If my run is gonna be artificially extended either way I'd rather spend a few minutes waiting for a replacement (and call up a FC/LS member if necessary) than spend them carrying yet another lazy healer through easy content.

[Seig345]

It sounds like Sylve is talking about players who are trying their best but maybe aren't playing top notch, while Neophyte is talking about a bump on a log auto-following the party and contributing nothing, and responding to each other as if they've swapped what kind of players they're talking about. I think the discrepancy here is intention/effort vs outright skill.

If a player is trying their best, but are using imperfect rotations/forgetting to use certain cooldowns or optimizing their downtime as a healer by throwing in DPS when they're safely able to do so, I feel like you could call them a 'good player' in terms of the fact that they're trying, but perhaps they're lacking in the skill department (I refer to skill as in skill you can improve through practice, not innate skill where they're simply "dumb") and just need more practice or some advice. Unskilled, sure, but they're trying.

However, if a player is deliberately just tagging along and doing absolutely nothing, or outright sits at the entrance doing nothing, then within the context of this game they are a bad player. This game is about cooperation with other players. Your subscription fee entitles you access to the game's servers and the ability to create a character on it, it does not inherently entitle you to play however you want despite (or even TO spite) your fellow players without any form of consequence leveled at you by said fellow players.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

If a player is trying their best, but are using imperfect rotations/forgetting to use certain cooldowns or optimizing their downtime as a healer by throwing in DPS when they're safely able to do so, I feel like you could call them a 'good player' in terms of the fact that they're trying, but perhaps they're lacking in the skill department (I refer to skill as in skill you can improve through practice, not innate skill where they're simply "dumb") and just need more practice or some advice. Unskilled, sure, but they're trying.

Yes I agree and you can spot these players as you will see the occasional song going up or cleric popped on and quickly took off as they realised it was the wrong time. Everyone should strive to use every useful ability they have available to them.

Also while discussing clerics etc. How many healers here have clerics as their first cross class instead of protect?