Is DPS'ing as a Healer Vote Kickable?

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

You should be ashamed for what you said. Healer can't do mistakes? Delete your account if you don't want to see anyone making mistakes.

Nah~ Neither tanks or healers can make mistakes~ If I make a mistake on my CD rotation as the MT and I'm spending the majority of my time in dps stance, I fully expect to get kicked if something goes wrong and we wipe. I just hold the healers equally accountable, and no one likes to be accountable.

[Lambdafish]

Nah~ Neither tanks or healers can make mistakes~ If I make a mistake on my CD rotation as the MT and I'm spending the majority of my time in dps stance, I fully expect to get kicked if something goes wrong and we wipe. I just hold the healers equally accountable, and no one likes to be accountable.

Honestly, I would more likely kick someone (not that I ever kick people) with a toxic attitude like yours, than a tank/healer who made a mistake, apologised, and talked about what went wrong (even better if they ask for advice). The reason is that they are trying to improve themselves, they aren't perfect but they are trying, that is how mistakes happen. You would be right if they wiped and said nothing, and then continued wiping, but mistakes are a big part of improving, and I admire those who push themselves, even if they fall short sometimes. I do not admire those who think that minimal input is a satisfactory bar for a competant player.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Snip.

You call it toxic, I call it being pragmatic and being held accountable. Seeing as I spend the majority of my time in dps stance, I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that I believe people should give minimal effort, but if playing SwO/Gritless is a bad thing, I'll be even more ecstatic to call out CS abusing healers! Honestly, I just hold players to the same standard I hold myself. <3 If you wanna play more risky, you better be able to walk~

It's ultimately just common sense, though. If a player makes a mistake that causes a wipe, it's only natural to presume their prompt dismissal.

[Lambdafish]

You call it toxic, I call it being pragmatic and being held accountable. Seeing as I spend the majority of my time in dps stance, I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that I believe people should give minimal effort, but if playing SwO/Gritless is a bad thing, I'll be even more ecstatic to call out CS abusing healers! Honestly, I just hold players to the same standard I hold myself. <3 If you wanna play more risky, you better be able to walk~

I seem to be confused, you either want healers to play with minimal effort, or play perfectly, thats what I seem to be getting from your argument. How exactly do you want healers to be playing?

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

I seem to be confused, you either want healers to play with minimal effort, or play perfectly, thats what I seem to be getting from your argument. How exactly do you want healers to be playing?

Whatever ensures a prompt completion of the objective. I'd rather spend 18-20 minutes with a healer that isn't comfortable and would rather not dps than spend 40 minutes with a healer trying to fit a round peg in a square hole and failing at both their main job and their secondary role.

I have no interest in teaching a healer or a tank how to perform the basics of their role when I don't have the mentor crown enabled. If I do? I'm in for the long haul. If I don't? Can't be bothered. Learn the basics on someone else's time, not mine. I have five more stages of the relic to grind out, I have minimal interest in wasting time with even one wipe, when I have two light grinds and roughly 30k lore I still need to farm up.

Given all the comments in this particular page so far - I'm wondering:



How many tanks do their mass pulls without a tank stance on? I'm genuinely beginning to think this poster's issues regarding "bad healers" stems from their lack of tank stance being used, especially if mass pulls are done outside of tank stance. From my own experiences, the vast majority of PuG tanks who mass pull do so in tank stance and reserve their use of DPS stance for when a pack is chopped down to a smaller level or strictly for DPS after hate is cemented on bosses.

I don't tank dungeons, but trials and raids. Oftentimes the dps aren't particularly competent, and an instant queue leads to a 20 minute+ dungeon run with excessive tank stance use, while going as a dps means a 1/2 minute queue and 15 minutes or less runs.

[Ghishlain]

Given all the comments in this particular page so far - I'm wondering:

Seeing as I spend the majority of my time in dps stance,

How many tanks do their mass pulls without a tank stance on? I'm genuinely beginning to think this poster's issues regarding "bad healers" stems from their lack of tank stance being used, especially if mass pulls are done outside of tank stance. From my own experiences, the vast majority of PuG tanks who mass pull do so in tank stance and reserve their use of DPS stance for when a pack is chopped down to a smaller level or strictly for DPS after hate is cemented on bosses.

[Malzian]

I have five more stages of the relic to grind out, I have minimal interest in wasting time with even one wipe, when I have two light grinds and roughly 30k lore I still need to farm up.

Not to boil your post down so much, and while I agree that not having the crown on vs having it on constitutes a total differentiation on your responsibility to help teach other players... I find this particular argument to be rather telling about the way content and systems are presented to us and what the player base chooses to make out of them.

"I have five more stages of the relic to grind out..."

I always find this to be a weak argument for trying to rush people through content that's technically irrelevant to you because all you want is the carrot at the end. You don't have five stages of the relic to grind out... you have five stages of the relic to work through. Your pace of it is your own construction as the relics were never designed to be done in an "all or nothing, burn it down as fast as you can" manner. The relic was designed as a casual alternative to a raid weapon for those people who don't have the time to devote to raid day in and day out. It's meant to be taken slowly, as you do other things. It is the mentality of the players that everything must be done fast or, 'OMG why r u wastin mah timez?'

Now it's not all your fault, the fact that most of the steps are based off of cooperative content completion can certainly raise the feeling of people taking up your precious 'timez'. But that you choose to view the relic as something to get done ASAP for some reason or another is entirely your own doing and your impatience with such things stems entirely from the fact of it.

Once more, though, I am of the camp that you should be DPSing when you're not healing, but let's please keep the reasoning rational and based on the most efficient way to play a class for the benefit of yourself and those around you, not just because you needed your shiny like yesterday.

[Altena]

How many tanks do their mass pulls without a tank stance on? I'm genuinely beginning to think this poster's issues regarding "bad healers" stems from their lack of tank stance being used, especially if mass pulls are done outside of tank stance. From my own experiences, the vast majority of PuG tanks who mass pull do so in tank stance and reserve their use of DPS stance for when a pack is chopped down to a smaller level or strictly for DPS after hate is cemented on bosses.

It is much more effective on WAR and DRK to drop tank stance on big pulls. Not only does stuff die faster but the HP return from Bloodbath is usually sufficient.

WAR in deliverance with Bloodbath and paired with another buff (like Intuition or Vengence) is nearrrrly completely self sustainable while in Deliverance. You may be need the odd spot heal but for the most part they can self sustain. Similar story with DRK.

PLD well they don't have any AoE damage over and above Scorn so on a big pull there is pretty much no point to be in Sword Oath, so you might as well Shield.

[Dement]

It is much more effective on WAR and DRK to drop tank stance on big pulls. Not only does stuff die faster but the HP return from Bloodbath is usually sufficient.

WAR in deliverance with Bloodbath and paired with another buff (like Intuition or Vengence) is nearrrrly completely self sustainable while in Deliverance. You may be need the odd spot heal but for the most part they can self sustain. Similar story with DRK.

PLD well they don't have any AoE damage over and above Scorn so on a big pull there is pretty much no point to be in Sword Oath, so you might as well Shield.

I certainly agree with this but I still tend to pull in Defiance until I get the full pack gathered and positioned as I'm securing enmity at this point and not focused on DPS while running down whatever hallway dungeon I'm currently in. The extra enmity from Defiance should keep everything locked on me while the ranged can still attack while we are in motion. Once I stop though and everything is grouped, it's all Deliverance.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Yeah, with Blood Price up, DA+AD is a very significant of life steal, even with the 3 second limitation. I've seen fairly few DRK actually use tank stance while they have either that combo or DA+DD/DA+DP up, since they have massive evasion on large pulls with that.