Is DPS'ing as a Healer Vote Kickable?

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Snip.

Well, there's 3 skill levels generally.

10-8 Healers that can dps perfectly satisfactorily while keeping the group at stable, if not necessarily healthy, levels of HP.

7-4 Healers that can keep the group in perfectly good health, but aren't comfortable adding in dps for whatever reason, but are still capable of clearing content in a timely manner

3-1 Healers that struggle to balance their healing and dps appropriately, causing numerous needless wipes, deaths, and possibly even enrages because they lack the skill to even perform the absolute minimum required for their job, causing significant dps loss from the group as a whole despite trying to add in their own numbers.

I just find it funny that people are trying to argue that people failing at both primary and secondary responsibilities are somehow better than those capable of satisfying their primary requirements with flying colors.

[Zojha]

So, going by the majority of people in this thread, I should just assume everyone plays at the same, or higher, skill level as myself at all times, and if they aren't I should call them baddies, and kick them from my group.

And this is precisely the part where you imply what I just told you you imply.

Let me walk you through your own statement.
What people expect of healers is that they use the time where they do not need to heal to DPS instead. Full stop. And just for clarification: Nobody expects healers to DPS when they should be healing right then. The entire argument goes around people who really don't need to heal now nor in the immediate future. People who just stand around doing nothing for 5 or more seconds - 5 seconds because that's a cleric stance window.

You now say that you should not expect that of healers because not everyone is the same skill as yourself and not everyone can attain it. But the skill level people ask for is not nor has ever been their own - it's the one required to use damage abilities when no healing abilities are required. As such, your statement implies some people might not have the skill nor can attain the skill to hit damage abilities when they do not need to hit healing abilities - that is a very, very low skill level. And since you use that argument for healers, you imply that this low skill level is to be expected from healers, not the skill level at which you can press damage abilities when you do not need to hit healing abilities. In other words, healers usually suck and you should expect them to suck.

I gladly believe you that this is not at all what you wanted to say. But it's pretty much what you said.

[Aramina]

... But the skill level people ask for is not nor has ever been their own - it's the one required to use damage abilities when no healing abilities are required. As such, your statement implies some people might not have the skill nor can attain the skill to hit damage abilities when they do not need to hit healing abilities - that is a very, very low skill level. And since you use that argument for healers, you imply that this low skill level is to be expected from healers, not the skill level at which you can press damage abilities when you do not need to hit healing abilities. In other words, healers usually suck and you should expect them to suck.

I gladly believe you that this is not at all what you wanted to say. But it's pretty much what you said.

This. This is *exactly* what I was attempting to say in my last post.

[Saito_S]

^ Spot on. Stance-dancing is something I'd understand a less experienced player being uncomfortable with trying to do too much till they get used to it, but you can try to toss out a few Aero's, at least.

Besides, that's a new player; for the most part, what we're talking about in this thread is experienced (often level 60) players who literally refuse to use any DPS abilities, simply because "I don't feel like it." I also can't help but notice that the question - posed several times - of "What exactly do you do with all that downtime?"has never really been answered.

I just find it funny that people are trying to argue that people failing at both primary and secondary responsibilities are somehow better than those capable of satisfying their primary requirements with flying colors.

No one is arguing that.

[Greedalox]

I just find it funny that people are trying to argue that people failing at both primary and secondary responsibilities are somehow better than those capable of satisfying their primary requirements with flying colors.

I'm thinking you're slightly off base with where the Pro-DPS'ers are coming from.

[Gokuhan]

Better not get in a group with me then. I am there not heal and keep people alive not dps. I do not dps on my healers, if I want to dps then I will go on a dps job.

There is no requirement to dps as a healer, our job is to keep everyone alive so they can do their job.

Sorry but this attitude, ESPECIALLY on a SCH is just basically "I want to stand around and do as little as possible while my fairy handles the bulk of the work."

[loreleidiangelo]

I also can't help but notice that the question - posed several times - of "What exactly do you do with all that downtime?"has never really been answered.

On a personal level, for instances like Dun Scaith where a run can go from smooth to utterly chaotic in under a few seconds, I freely admit that I do very little Stance-dancing, if any at all. I prefer to stay sharp to keep the group up when an add goes astray, multiple mechanics are failed, or when another alliance starts faltering - if my own is healthy, I can heal and raise to assist another team. You're right in the sense that I'm not "doing" anything, but I do think there are circumstances where it might not be unusual for a healer not to DPS even when the run is going fairly uneventfully.

I DPS pretty much all other content, though. Just, there are times in Dun Scaith where I've DPSed heavily during the beginning portions of the run and ran out of gas when things went south, so I prefer to stay prepared in an instance like that where plenty of people are new or still struggling with mechanics.

[MisterLucie]

Can't we just get rid of cleric stance and balance healer damage without it? There's no reason to keep such a clunky design in place when other MMOs have demonstrated that it's unnecessary.

[Greedalox]

Can't we just get rid of cleric stance and balance healer damage without it? There's no reason to keep such a clunky design in place when other MMOs have demonstrated that it's unnecessary.

It's only clunky in the sense that it sometimes doesn't click on/off. It's purpose is pretty straight forward and anything but clunky.

[Rennies]

Can't we just get rid of cleric stance and balance healer damage without it? There's no reason to keep such a clunky design in place when other MMOs have demonstrated that it's unnecessary.

Yup. This, alongside the removal of Accuracy, would encourage the bottom of the barrel Healers to start contributing. Also, we need to reduce button bloat anyway, so might as well get rid of that pesky stance.