No Community

[Aramina]

The most salient thought I’ve had here is I miss hating someone so bad that I wrote their name down in a book and stayed up till 3AM grinding so the next time I seen them I'd kill'm and dance on their body while they watched from the afterlife. I want to feel genuine gratitude to someone who escorted me thru Jugnar Forest for my first trip to Jeuno.

Wildstar tried to bring the challenge back. As a commercial venture, it failed. Miserably.

edit: Also: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...e_.php?print=1 I know it's cool these days to claim 'they must be 14 year olds in their parents basement' but it has been proven time and time again this is simply not true. FWIW, I am a 43 year old... though I do have a 14 year old daughter so maybe I am gaming vicariously through her? o_O

[Seig345]

When FFXI was new and I signed up, I was 14 with my parents CC, and had far more time to devote to the level slog. There were fun times, but I eventually gave up many expansions later (without actually making it past the original MSQ, lol) because I had other games I'd rather play instead of sitting around LFG or scraping a party together for 30 minutes of progress if I was lucky.

I'm now a 30 something with my own CC, and highly appreciate a game where I can play with my friends when our schedules line up, but can still make progress when they don't and especially when I only have a couple hours to play.

[aesteval]

P.S.
SE went with the "WoW" business model because it appeals to all the 14 year olds with their parents CC's. Evidence of the preferred demo is apparent in the new art direction IMHO. The “end game” is catered to feeding the aimless 20-somethings using game progress in lieu of real life progress, they need a constant stream of new content (however empty and thin) to shield them from any terrifying moments of introspection. There were legitimate reasons people frowned upon the "Xbox noobs" and "WoWzers”. They're the lowest common denominator and simultaneously the largest market

...

Are people doing anything other than throwing out stereotypes in this discussion?

[Nixxe]

Other than fates falling out of favor with most people, I haven't noticed any significant changes from ARR to now that would inhibit socialization. Granted, that is a big change. I just talk in dungeons and say random stuff and it tends to start interaction. Of course, sometimes everyone is suuuuuuuuuuper dedicated to blitzing the dungeon as quickly as possible and that means no talking ever, but whatever. That's their prerogative. Other times people are really chatty in return.

[Seig345]

This seems like an age old argument that has been through the mill on these forums.

Yes, the older MMOs were harder, and therefore you had a greater sense of connection with other players (be it friendly or hostile). WoW broke the genre from niche into mainstream gaming, and businesses are only going to look at those numbers.

We also knew ARR was going to be WoW since at least 2013 when Yoshi himself made a direct comparison to what his goal was for FFXIV's design. Anyone who was paying attention to the game prior to relaunch wasn't surprised to see the game running on the themepark formula.

[Nixxe]

SE went with the "WoW" business model because...They're the lowest common denominator and simultaneously the largest market

There's no game design that can force you to make friends. WoW has changed a lot in the decade I've played it and certain types of content no longer promote the same type of interaction they used to, but all that has really changed is that those opportunities for socialization moved to other parts of the game. Heroics no longer really provide a social experience, but you can bet m+ dungeons do, as that's a type of content where networking and consistency are greatly advantageous. Raiding with any seriousness has always been a huge opportunity as well, even if the casual end of things is largely anonymous. FFXIV has a lot of those types of opportunities as well. I don't really think it's some critical game flaw if it doesn't dump friends in your lap, but simply provides you the opportunity to make friends if you choose to.

[Stravioli]

Are people doing anything other than throwing out stereotypes in this discussion?

The community discussion in mmo's has always been predicated on comparing current connections in the community and how they're made to previous iterations. It's going to naturally follow that people draw direct comparisons to older mmos and their methods. When I called upon UO, EQ, Runescape and the lack of moderation in chat, I'm specifically referring to how players are forced to talk to each other. In example, early on you might not know where to begin your exploration into the world or leveling so you consult the local chat and you quickly meet a broad manner of people whereas FFXIV's chat only provides saccharin helpful responses; I miss the guy who used to get away with "your mom's house" and general being unhelpful.Personally I've been kicked from the NoviNet for telling people to do all the side quests and that's a damned shameful blight upon the community when you can get kicked for something so harmless.

[Parisstilton]

P.S.
SE went with the "WoW" business model because it appeals to all the 14 year olds with their parents CC's. Evidence of the preferred demo is apparent in the new art direction IMHO. The “end game” is catered to feeding the aimless 20-somethings using game progress in lieu of real life progress, they need a constant stream of new content (however empty and thin) to shield them from any terrifying moments of introspection. There were legitimate reasons people frowned upon the "Xbox noobs" and "WoWzers”. They're the lowest common denominator and simultaneously the largest market

...

Wow! And you wonder why you can't find a friend?

[LunaFaye]

There's no game design that can force you to make friends.

Actually there has been. Someone remember the good old FFXIV x-primals? To that time and we all know that, you needed to beat the previous X-Primal if you wanted to move on. If you didn't have friends, static or tons of money you weren't able to beat these trials. DF was a disaster when it came to Titan X and Ifrit X. Even PF's struggled to clear it and as than the the ilvl 90 weapon quest was released, and you needed to farm these primals once a week, everything went into chaos mode.

I still find people nowadays that quit because they couldn't beat that content, and now decided to finally come back. I find people everyday on DF that still can't beat it lol. Same was with old coil, I am not sure if you have experienced it or not, and I am not talking after all the nerfs, I am actually talking about the times as that content was still relevant. The forum and not only the forum were flooded with people being unable to beat T5, and if that wasn't even bad enough already, with the introduction of T9 and T13 all hell broke loose. Anyways, long story short, to that time SE forced you to make friends if you planned on playing endgame content. Nowadays not so much anymore, DF/PF and RF are your friends.

[RaijinSupreme]

P.S.
SE went with the "WoW" business model because it appeals to all the 14 year olds with their parents CC's. Evidence of the preferred demo is apparent in the new art direction IMHO. The “end game” is catered to feeding the aimless 20-somethings using game progress in lieu of real life progress, they need a constant stream of new content (however empty and thin) to shield them from any terrifying moments of introspection. There were legitimate reasons people frowned upon the "Xbox noobs" and "WoWzers”. They're the lowest common denominator and simultaneously the largest market

...

...so you have a problem being an older person and playing games with younger people who know nothing of your older experiences... and not being able to find other older people that share your disdain for how younger people decide to play their own video games...

ok.