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[Magic-Mal]

For the people comparing XIV to XI, XI forced you to play with people so of course you'd get to know them sooner or later. It's not XIV's fault if you are in an FC and LS and you have no friends. You have to step up and talk to people and get involved. It shouldn't be up to someone/something else to help you get friends. It's on you. FFXIV doesn't force you to be with people all the time so if you are choosing to not talk.. When its so easy to do so, who's fault is it really?

Also XIV is still new so to me, I don't believe they can be compared to XI friends that you probably knew for years before going to XIV. Bond with people and maybe they'll bond with you.

[Nixxe]

I’m speaking more to cohesions, culture and camaraderie. So many of you have challenged the notion that bonds are forged under pressure. I think you’re young and naive.
...
Such severe game play allowed for powerful acts of altruism and true feelings of gratitude. The point I’ve been trying to illustrate is that when everything is vanilla you’ve limited the range of possible emotions.

What people have primarily challenged is that pressure is a necessary ingredient, which it most certainly isn't. You're immensely oversimplifying things and projecting your personal feelings on to the entirety of the playerbase though. One of the proudest moments I had in WoW was when my crappy little 10 man guild killed H Deathwing against all odds. Similarly, when my crappy 25 man guild first killed Gruul. Neither of these kills were impressive and no doubt the content was trivial to many players, and it even would have been to me had I just played in a guild that was at my level, but it didn't matter. It didn't change how I felt about it. It's a different type of pride than I felt when I moved on to a much better guild that put me in a position to rank really well, even getting a few rank 1 parses or when top 50 world guilds actively tried to recruit me, and it certainly happened, despite the chorus of despair from the wannabe elitists who fancy themselves experts in game design. Different people enjoy different things and they are quite capable of not only having a diverse array of emotional responses to even seemingly mundane events, but managing their own fun and knowing what they do and don't enjoy, what makes them feel good and feel bad, without some third party to micromanage those things for them, same as you can.

[Magic-Mal]

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Your whole post can simply be summed up simply as nostalgia. You repeatedly said "In XI", "In XI", "In XI". Understand that this is not XI. And it isn't XIV's fault that it isn't XI. That kind of gaming just isn't successful anymore(I don't actually have proof, but I feel 100% certain). You said "Severe gaming"... in FFXIV, besides raiding(like 3% of the player base), there is no hardcore content. This is a casual social game. You liked being forced to interact, well this game just isn't that. I'm happy it isn't that. It's accessible and that's what makes it successful.

You have to deal with it. Have to deal with the fact that this isn't 20-30 years ago anymore. If you can't.. well FFXIV just isn't for you and should just go back to XI. Cause in FFXIV, nothing is stopping you from making friends yourself but you.

[Rinari]

Such severe game play allowed for powerful acts of altruism and true feelings of gratitude. The point I’ve been trying to illustrate is that when everything is vanilla you’ve limited the range of possible emotions.

You do realize that 'severe' games still exist right? They just aren't so popular because most people don't want to deal with that stress for what is essentially a way to relax in the evenings. In UO, for example, a death could mean losing your best gear that you spent months working on... or an invisible player could follow you into your house and loot your entire fortune. Severe, and it creates some of the best stories to come out of MMO worlds, but it isn't the sort of game most people actually want to play. It really sounds like you should be playing an MMO like Darkfall instead of FFXIV. FFXIV is designed to be a high budget, broad appeal, feature rich theme-park MMO. Part of that 'broad appeal' is that mechanics most players would find crippling are weeded out, leaving what you see as a vanilla experience. Of course, the broad appeal allows for a much higher player base and budget, so we can have pretty graphics and dungeon finder for easy grouping.

I do get it. Difficult mechanics force players to work together and communicate on a deeper level than what you get here. Even something simple like killing the duty finder, would foster that. If players had to actually talk to each other to form groups, there would be more forced socialization. Of course, if FFXIV went that route, they wouldn't be as popular and the game would have to contend with a smaller budget.

I get it, they’re not for everyone and maybe not even for me anymore but for those of you who still have 10 hours a day and unlimited fucks to give, you’re really missing out.

Exactly! There is reason I didn't stick with Archeage and never bothered even trying Darkfall. When I was a kid, with infinite time, games like that appealed to me. Now they do not. I just want a relaxing game now with enough depth to keep me interested, but not annoy me. There are games out there that strongly resemble what you remember so fondly about UO and XI. You have just decided not to play them, like the rest of us here. It would be silly to try and turn FFXIV into that. We'd just go to another 'vanilla' MMO.

[LineageRazor]

*Snip*

While I, too, have plenty of nostalgia for FFXI, and am in agreement with you on many things (for example, yeah, the equipment in this game is lame and provides no satisfaction because it's all junk in a few months), but let's not forget that even back then players strove for the same conveniences we enjoy now. Skillchains require communication and cooperation? Simple - it wasn't long at all before no one bothered to skillchain or magic burst. No YouTube videos? Check out Blugartr or Ffxiclopedia to study up on the fights - it's not as though folks typically went into them blind, heavens no!

I think it's a mistake to say that the brutality of FFXI is what promoted the kind of "fire-forged friendships" you're thinking of. Rather, that brutality tended to chase away everyone except a core group of borderline masochistic folks who happened to have a largely similar mindset toward gaming. Because of this similar mindset, it was easier to make friends - just about everyone playing the game for a long period of time had a firm dedication to the game. That core group is STILL HERE in FFXIV - it's just that in addition to that core group, there's all kinds of other folks who might not be quite on your wavelength.

It's not that the game is working to discourage friendships. Rather, it's that the kind of folks that you tend to make friends with are more diluted among a much greater variety of folks which you may or may not find common interests with.

[Kosmos992k]

Thank you again to everyone who has posted here. I realize that I’ve been harsh in my appraisals but I think this is an important issue to raise for the next generation of MMO’s. I do not expect XIV to do an about-face**snip**

I’m realizing now having read all your comments that my use of the word “friendship” has obfuscated the issue. Many of you have shared anecdotes of in game connections that bloom into real-life friendships. Some of you may even have found significant others here. This was never under contention.

I’m speaking more to cohesion, culture and camaraderie. So many of you have challenged the notion that bonds are forged under pressure. I think you’re young and naive.**snippage of FFXI (and UO) rose tinted nostalgia**
I get it, they’re not for everyone and maybe not even for me anymore**snip**

I think I get it now. You want FFXIV to be FFXI, but it's not, and you don't like that. You could have just said that at the beginning.

[AmalonStar]

You are right OP. It's because this game is crossplay with PS4. Console players aren't meant to socialize (pretty casual they are), just do quests, dungeons and enjoy their little limited fun they have been enforced to. Then also there is no massive PVP which is very important thing for a MMORPG. Too casual i say, too much.

A lot of the friends I've made on the game all play on the ps4, I have them on both my in game friends list as well as my psn friends list.

Yes in the game there is a lot if players that are more the 'solo' kind of players and they're on both PC and console. At the same time there are a lot of players that like the social aspect of online gaming like myself, and that is why I'm addicted to online gaming.

Perhaps try making a post in the FC section describing the kind of FC you would like to join and I'm sure someone would be able to point you In The right direction.

[AmalonStar]

Also pvp has nothing to do with it, there are a lot of ppl that dislike pvp. I don't usually play pvp games because I don't want to be out doing something just for someone to come around trying to kill me. Pvp in XIV is optional and you don't have someone trying to kill you.