Mentor minimum requirement is too low / needs adjustment

[Altena]

Currently the mentor system needs some work, and a good start would be to improve the minimum requirement to be a mentor over and above simply having one of each role at 60 (Healer, DPS, Tank).

Here is why...

I am currently not a mentor, mostly because I did not bother levelling a healer role from 50-60 when Heavensward was released. Meanwhile my /playtime is logged at 643 days, I have beaten A12S, I have all DoH/DoL classes at 60 (despite being lazy with collectables) and all round consider myself a veteran player. I mostly play battle content, yet I am not a mentor due to the requirement of having a healer at 60.

Now this post isn't just me whinging that I am not a mentor (because honestly I don't care to be one). I am however highlighting the fact that if I wanted to, someone who has played the game since 1.x, has logged nearly 2 years of "logged in" time, and completed the highest tier raid in its current state, does not meet the requirements.

Let me tell you another short story -

I am currently levelling AST to kill a bit of time during this dry content spell we are in. I queued into Darkhold, and noticed the tank was a mentor, and the two DPS had the plant icon (one new, one returning).

The mentor (tank) didn't pull the mobs into the crystal protection so the eye kept AoE'ing the party (not a big deal, I just healed through it) and asked them to move into the blue aura when I had a spare moment. Mobs continually aggro'd me (specifically ghosts) as they didn't pull the melee mobs to the ghosts in order to be able to hold hate.

This tank also didn't pull the first boss into the blue crystal for a good 15-20 seconds, and the new player actually asked him to. I found it amusing that the new player was mentoring the mentor.

Finally, for the entire dungeon the tank would stand in every single ground AoE without even attempting to dodge. By that I mean literally just stood there while the AoE went off without taking a step in any direction. I asked them to please try to attempt to dodge the ground AoE (twice) however they didn't.

At the end of the dungeon the tank (mentor) said "Sorry" in /say chat. I am unsure if this was an indication or not that the player just didn't know how to type in party chat, and they must have been that new.. However it baffles me how a player of this standard can be given the mentor flag for battle classes.

I originally thought this player was simply new to tanking, however I realised that in order for them to be a mentor, they would have had to level a Tank to 60.

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Finally I wish to add that I by no means judge these players as most of the time I put it down to them just being new, or having less experience than me and I deal with it. MMO's are games with an extremely wide range of skill and it doesn't really bother me, however for a player that is flagged as being someone who will offer advice to new players - it deeply concerns me that someone of that skill level is a mentor, and I am not.

So my request is quite simple.

Adjust the minimum mentor requirement to include at least 100 days of "logged in" playtime, or number of instanced duties completed, or something along those lines - rather than a blanket requirement of "1 of each role at 60".

Levelling doesn't take long in this game, and there are many level 60 players on multiple jobs that don't have anywhere near the level of knowledge that should be required in order to give advice to new players - as these players are new themselves.

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Edit - I was mistaken, there is a minimum instances & commendations requirement but they seem rather low. (Shows how much interest I have taken to the "mentor" system).

A few other suggestions / points from the thread

...the role condition can stay
...instances needs to be massively increased, maybe to the 5,000 mark when you get the Lifer II achievement
...commendations should be increased relatively high, either 1,000 or 500. 300 is a bit low.

Biggest issue is it counts unsynced duties, so you could spend all your time just unsyncing Ifrit NM and it would be fine.

... Maybe use total achievement point instead of login time which also can reflect how long has this player played.

[ErryK]

Well, it's 1 of each role at 60, plus 1000 instances complete, plus 300 commendations.

In my opinion, the role condition can stay. but the instances needs to be massively increased, maybe to the 5,000 mark when you get the Lifer II achievement. And commendations should be increased relatively high, either 1,000 or 500. 300 is a bit low.

[Altena]

Well, it's 1 of each role at 60, plus 1000 instances complete, plus 300 commendations.

In my opinion, the role condition can stay. but the instances needs to be massively increases, maybe to the 5,000 mark when you get the Lifer II achievement. And commendations should be increased relatively high, either 1,000 or 500. 300 is a bit low.

Oh wait it already IS like that? And we still get players like this?

What in the seven hells?

How?


I honestly think some high-ish "logged in" time should also come into play.. I am also fine with the role condition - like I said in my OP, I don't specifically wish to become a mentor, as I try to give pointers to people who are obviously new with or without the mentor icon. I am all for more strict requirements than fewer. My point about me not being a mentor was more the fact that I consider myself quite a vet, yet someone who has no clue can be one.

[ErryK]

snip

Biggest issue is it counts unsynced duties, so you could spend all your time just unsyncing Ifrit NM and it would be fine.

Logged in time could work too, or work off time subbed too.

[Altena]

Biggest issue is it counts unsynced duties, so you could spend all your time just unsyncing Ifrit NM and it would be fine.

Logged in time could work too, or work off time subbed too.

Ah right, that makes sense..

Hah, why not both? More restrictions are better than fewer at this point. 1 of each role, 1k unsynced duties (4 man or higher), 500 commendations, 100 (or 200?) days logged in, 6 (or 12?) months subscription time?

All of this sounds much nicer.

I'm at 372 days, but mine has very little "afk" time.

people would just leave the clients on 24/7 to meet a play time requirement.

That's fine provided the minimum is high enough. I do have a lot of afk time logged, however I believe it also rolled over from 1.0 as well. My playtime is very much inflated. Even if a lot of those hours are AFK time, that effectively means that people would have had to sub for that long.

Person does not have to be good at the job to level it to 60.

Well of course I know this, but this player just seemed extremely new. Just didn't know basic mechanics and didn't attempt to dodge (probably too focused on action bars or something).

[Lexia]

Oh wait it already IS like that? And we still get players like this?

What in the seven hells?

How?

Person does not have to be good at the job to level it to 60.

[The_Last_Dragoon]

Well, it's 1 of each role at 60, plus 1000 instances complete, plus 300 commendations.

In my opinion, the role condition can stay. but the instances needs to be massively increased, maybe to the 5,000 mark when you get the Lifer II achievement. And commendations should be increased relatively high, either 1,000 or 500. 300 is a bit low.

I would say increase Commendations to 500, but instead of having it be a 5000 total mark for duties, it should require you to do literally everything that would normally be included in the Mentor Roulette (they could make it where you have to be synch'd as well). This way the Mentor status is unlocked along with the roulette and it would force them to at least have completed all of the duties once (that is also keeping the 1000 total duties).

[Bixillarla]

I would say increase Commendations to 500, but instead of having it be a 5000 total mark for duties, it should require you to do literally everything that would normally be included in the Mentor Roulette (they could make it where you have to be synch'd as well). This way the Mentor status is unlocked along with all of the dungeons along with the roulette and it would force them to at least have completed all of the duties once (that is also keeping the 1000 total duties).

This is already done. When new dungeons/radis/trials come out the mentor roulette is locked until you do the duties once to unlock it again. you have to have done everything in the mentor roulette once to unlock it.

[The_Last_Dragoon]

This is already done. When new dungeons/radis/trials come out the mentor roulette is locked until you do the duties once to unlock it again. you have to have done everything in the mentor roulette once to unlock it.

I'm just saying that they lock Mentor status behind the roulette wall as well, XD. I'm also unsure if the current requirements can't easily be circumvented by unsynch'd runs as well.

[Shougun]

I'm just saying that they lock Mentor status behind the roulette wall as well, XD. I'm also unsure if the current requirements can't easily be circumvented by unsynch'd runs as well.

Even if it couldn't be circumvented (had to run normal sync), it doesn't assure quality. I mean I get people trying to keep simple solutions but I am confident the only real change modifications like play time, achievements, number of runs, and things like that would do is just make it so less people are mentors and NOT increase the quality of the number of actual mentors that existed. To be honest the end result would probably be a higher percent of bad mentors but less mentors total, because a lot of good players who aren't ancient couldn't be mentors. Effectively these suggestions turn the mentor system into a good old boys club, which I think is entirely unnecessary - and bad.

It must be something that checks your quality and not your quantity. Any quantity suggestions will only make it more difficult to become mentor, and the suggestions I've seen would be in manor of a grind which assures zero quality testing. (A proper test of quality may include some amounts of quantity, but the purpose is not specifically quantity)

I wouldn't care if people could become mentor within an hour of reaching end game, if the tests they preformed ensured their quality. It's not really relevant to me how long you've played, how many emotes you've earned, as much as how well you can teach the activity you're supposedly a mentor of. Of course good attitude is important, but you can't really test that besides simple commendation tests (which are biased to specific jobs, so not that fair to use) and just let GM punish those who show bad attitude. (I have more commendations than I have instances ran for example, life of being a tank lol).

As far as being as helpful to newer players as possible we should have as many mentors as possible, that are also good at what they're a mentor of.

Seems like people want a sort of general helper though, so they could have different settings in the mentor program. Imo a mentor is someone who could without a doubt answer questions up to extreme, as long as they're not too obscure - but I could definitely see it being helpful to have a group of people who flag themselves as "I'd love to help you, ask me about titan hard mode, MSQ details, where I should go level, what to do at the Golden Saucer" and stuff like that. Achievements and progress things like that could be used for a generic helper, but for a mentor who queues for combat.. achievements is not a good dictator of anything, it doesn't make you a better player (maybe certain savage achievements, although you could argue small amounts of carrying - not as much as other contents though).

I'm only saying this stuff because a. I think SE could benefit from adding more learning tools, especially if they add jumping potions, and b. I think mentors should actually be reliably mentors (I've seen many where I wonder how in the world they got that status, but then I see the requirements and I know - and seeing peoples recommendations here I have little confidence the situation would change if not get worse). So I agree some changes to the system could be beneficial in multiple ways, but I don't think people are going about it in a way that will make meaningful change.

Having 1.0 achievements, 2.0 old seasonal, a lot of afk time, running way too many runs of a very specific dungeon for tome farming, these do not assure anything besides that I've played a bit. A mentor is not just a person who's played a lot. And as people who want the system to change are pointing out, mentors don't really have a high bar - so adding more bars that don't actually change your end result at best will do nothing at worst will just make it worse.

Going back to the skill tests I mentioned in the other post. As I suggested these advanced tests being helpful to train people to handle extreme content in a repeatable and less stressful way. I also think its important they're solo (Maat) / or very small party tests so that you can't rely on anyone else - especially as if you're alone the game can test you on very specific mechanics. Some crazy test that requires a BLM to run at a specific DPS while not dying (don't perform, don't pass), handling their ley, fire/blizzard rotation, and buff mechanics to near perfection. Can reuse monster/bosses and boss mechanics and have some NPC with specific coding to more quickly create these tests as well, so SE isn't spending too much resources on them (keep them cheap but effective, don't need to design new monsters or w.e). Mentor for BLM and general dungeon content - when you switch out of BLM you're no longer a mentor (but could perhaps be a lower tier 'general dungeon'.. if they want to go that route with the system), get all the jobs to Mentor status and it'd be a real badge of capability since it means all jobs to 60 AND you can play them to a very high caliber (master mentor).

If people are concerned they don't know certain dungeons anymore could add a requirement to being a Mentor is that you run old content every so often - but most dungeons have mechanics at are not too hard to pick up once you're used to the game (this is less true for primal fights). Although I would prefer if SE added a way you could simulate dungeons / fights, so you could practice them and you could add controls like unsync/sync, group/solo, basic AI partners (basically egi you choose the job of). That way you could run a specific old content, for visuals, nostalgia, information before the real deal, and you could also revive at specific bosses. Maybe something about a room that you use the power of the echo to see one possible future (as a lore explanation). Ofc no rewards, and exclude content that doesn't have a world first yet (avoid messing with the meta of savage raiders, until they're done being masochistic :P).

tl;dr: A lot of suggestions are working the basis of quantity, if you concern is about quality then your suggestions should focus on quality. If your concern is about quantity then what are you actually doing to the mentor system? The system doesn't need to be about congratulating players for being long term players, other new players don't need that.